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· Registered
251 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
since the 1st, civil war revolutionary days and the kentuky needle rifles ect., all US rifles outshine other countries rifles in accuracy.

Anyone elso notice how much more accurate US guns r in military mode?



· I can has M700 AICS!
156 Posts
I think I lost brain cells with this post.

So, no other country makes accurate guns? What about Accuracy International? Or H&K's long guns? Or the Dragunov and Mosin-Nagant rifle? What about the Kar98K? Or the SVT40? Or... Or... Or...

Vostok 7

· Registered
251 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
* In active service (all branches)
o M4/M4A1 Carbine (Automatic carbine, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO)
o M16A2/A3/A4 (Automatic rifle, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO)
* In active service (some branches, secondary or limited roles)
o HK 416 Carbine (Automatic carbine, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO) (US Army Asymmetric Warfare Group Only)
o Colt M723/M725 (M16A2 carbine, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO)
o M1 Garand(Semi-Automatic Rifle, 7.62 x 51 mm NATO) (In use by the U.S. Marine Corps Silent Drill Team)
o M14 (Selective Fire Rifle, 7.62 x 51 mm NATO)
o M14 SMUD (Stand-off Munition Disruption rifle, M14 with scope, used to destroy unexploded ordnance)
o GUU-5/P (Automatic carbine, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO) (USAF only)
o M16/A1 (5.56 x 45 mm NATO rifle) (limited numbers remain in use/inventory)
o CAR-15 Carbine (M16 w/ 16" barrel, 5.56 x 45 mm )
* Out of service 'obsolete'
o Colt Model 653 (M16A1 Carbine, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO)
o AR-15/Colt Model 601/602 (5.56 x 45 mm NATO rifle) (USAF and SOF use)
o Heckler & Koch G3 (7.62 x 51 mm NATO rifle) (special forces use only)
o Harrington & Richardson T223 (HK33; Select Fire Rifle, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO) (Navy SEALs only)
o AK-47/AKS-47/AKM/AKMS (Automatic Rifle, 7.62 x 39 mm) (Limited use by special operations units)
o Type 56 (Automatic Rifle, 7.62 x 39 mm) (Limited use by special operations units)
o SKS (Semi-Automatic Carbine, 7.62 x 39 mm) (Limited use by special operations units)
o XM23 Carbine (Selective Fire Carbine, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO)
o XM22/E1 Rifle (Selective Fire Rifle, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO)
o Mk 4 Mod 0 (Suppressed Rifle, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO)
o M1 Garand (Semi-Automatic Rifle, .30-'06)
o M1941 Johnson rifle (Semi-Automatic Rifle, .30-'06)
o M1918 BAR (.30-'06)
o M1917 (a/k/a Enfield Bolt Action Rifle; .30-'06)
o M1903/A1/A3 (a/k/a Springfield Bolt Action Rifle; .30-'03, .30-'06)
o M1895 Navy (Navy Lee, 6 mm Navy)
o M1892/M1896/M1898 Rifle (a/k/a Krag Bolt Action Rifle; .30-40 Krag)
o M1892/M1896/M1898/M1899 Carbine (a/k/a Krag Bolt Action Carbine; .30-40 Krag)
o M1885 Remington-Lee (Bolt-action rifle; .45-70 Gov)
o M1882 Short Rifle (.45-70 Gov.)
o M1882 Remington-Lee (Bolt-action rifle; .45-70 Gov.)
o M1879 Remington-Lee (Bolt-action rifle; .45-70 Gov.)
o M1877/M1879/M1884/M1886 Carbine (.45-70 Gov. (.45-55-405, .45-70-500)
o M1875 Officers' Rifle (.45-70 Gov.)
o M1873/M1879/M1880/M1884/M1888/M1889 Springfield (a/k/a Trapdoor Springfield;.45-70 Gov. (.45-70-405, .45-70-500))
o M1872 Springfield (a/k/a Rolling Block Springfield; .50-70 Gov.)
o M1865/M1866/M1868/M1869/M1870 Springfield (a/k/a Trapdoor Springfield; .50-70 Gov.)
o M1863 Rifle-Musket (rifle-musket)
o Sharps carbine/rifle (Breech-loader; .42-60-410) (.52 caliber issued to Berdan's 1st and 2nd US Sharpshooters in the US Civil War)
o Smith carbine (Breech-loader (break-open); .50-50-360)
o Henry rifle (Lever-action; .44-26-200)
o Spencer rifle (Lever-action; 56-56 (.52-45-350))
o M1863 Springfield
o M1861 Springfield (.58)
o Burnside Carbine (Breech-loader, .58-60-500)
o Starr Carbine (Breech-loader, .54)
o Colt revolving rifle (Colt Model 1855; 6/5-shot revolver rifle;.44/.56)
o Greene rifle (Bolt-action breech-loader)
o P53 Enfield (.577 (.58))
o P51 Enfield Musketoon ("Artillery Carbine"; 24" barrel, .69)
o Model 1854 Lorenz rifle (Rifle-musket, .54, .58)
o M1859 Sharps ('New model 1859', breech loader; .52, .56)
o M1855 Rifle-Musket
o M1855 Rifle (Percussion muzzle-loader; 58-60-500)
o M1847 Musketoon (Springfield, .69)
o M1842 Musket (Percussion musket, .69)
o M1841 Rifle "Mississippi Rifle" (percussion muzzle-loader;.54 , .58)
o M1840 Musket (flintlock musket;.69)(later percussion)
o M1835 Springfield (flintlock musket; .67 cal)
o M1819 Hall rifle (Harper's Ferry;Breech-loader)
o Model 1822 Musket (Flintlock Musket) .69 (later percussion)
o Model 1816 Musket (Flintlock musket; .69) (Later Percussion)
o Model 1817 Rifle ('Common rifle';Derringer, Johnson, North and Starr; Flintlock rifle, .54) (later percussion)
o Model 1814 Rifle (Deringer; Flintlock rifle)
o Springfield Model 1812 Musket (Flintlock musket; .69)
o Model 1808 Contract Musket (Flintlock musket; .69)
o Harper's Ferry Model 1803 Rifle (Flintlock rifle; .54)
o Model 1795 Musket (Flintlock musket; .69)
o Charleville musket (Flintlock musket; .69)
o Brown Bess (Musket; .75)
o Kentucky Rifle (Flintlock rifle)
o Ferguson rifle (Flintlock breech-loader; .69)
* Experimental
o EX 16 Mod 0 SCAR-L (Multipurpose Rifle, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO) (Active program)
o EX 17 Mod 0 SCAR-H (Multipurpose Rifle, 7.62 x 51 mm NATO) (Active program)
o XM8 (Lightweight Assault Rifle system, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO) (cancelled, October 31, 2005)
o XM29 (Kinetic Energy and Airburst Launcher System; 5.56 x 45 mm NATO and 20 mm airburst munition (XM101825)(early)/25 mm airburst munition) (cancelled, October 31, 2005)
o M4E2 Carbine (Automatic Carbine, 5.56 x 45 mm NATO) (never standardized)
o Gyrojet rifle (13 mm)
o M14E1 (Selective Fire Rifle, 7.62 x 51 mm NATO) (never standardized)
o Misc. Garand Variants (E1-E6 and E9-E14) (Semi-Automatic Rifle, .30-'06)
o Misc. Advanced Combat Rifle entries (concluded 1991)
o Misc. Future Rifle Program entries (cancelled)
o Misc. Special Purpose Individual Weapon (SPIW) entries (concluded/cancelled)
o Pedersen Rifle (.276) (Not Pedersen device)
o Pedersen Device (.30) (w/ M1903)

· Fanatical Feline
5,275 Posts
I would have to agree, most of our basic rifles issued are more so accurate than many countrys. Yes there are some that are EX G3, FAL, SA80 and others but in all the years of infantry rifles I think ours are more.

On another note, I never knew they messed with Gyrojet rifles for the military, Those things are very strange, some guy at the near by range had one he would pull the trigger and it would take a second or so to fire. Still very cool weapon.

· Premium Member
7,388 Posts
Well the Kentucky Rifles were just German Jaeger guns, the P17(british gun) and 1903 are basically model 95 and 98 mausers. And let us not forget the woefully inaccurate Krag Jorgenson.

The issue with alot of the European guns, especially older ones is that they were used much harder and are more worn. I have a 1941 Carcano that was never issued. Its more accurate than my Garand.

Alot also depends on wartime production vs peacetime.

· Registered
724 Posts
For the most part european gunmakers have never been worried about tack driving accuracy. If you wanted a precision shooting rifle you don't just pick a gun off the rack, you get a "tactical" or "sniper" style rifle. The average european military or sporting rifle has basic real life field accuracy. It prolly won't shot MOA many won't do better than 3" at 100yds but thats accurate enough to drop a moose stag or enemy at 400. Their just not as anal about accuracy as we are over here.

Even today unless a person buys a rifle from a european manufacture that build competition and tactical rifles accurqacy won't be impresive. You can buy a brand new Rigby or H&H that start at 8000$ these guns are a work of art and will cycle and fire no matter what they go bang but don't expect it to group under 2.5" at 100 with the best handload you can build.

· Premium Member
7,388 Posts
About the only great accuracy that came from guns where the German Schuetzen rifles and the rifles the Irish shooting team competed with in the late 1800's at the creedmore range in America. They lost but usually just barely.

I am more in the European mindset. If I can hit what I need to kill everytime then thats just great for me and I dont need anymore. Most guns can outshoot their shooters( not the shooters benchrest) unless the gun is worn out. I much prefer the buttery smooth feeling of a Mauser 98 or Mannlicher Shoenauer to that of a Reminton 700 or a Savage 10. Sure they are not as accurate but they feed upside down and are so smooth you cant believe it. I have seen Mannlicher Schoenauers that will drop and close the bolt by just turning them from muzzle in the air to muzle to the ground. I liek that level of fitting and tahts why I am going to sink 500 bucks in a nice Mauser 98 that will shoot 1.5 MOA instead on a Savage that will do .50 MOA.

The only push feed rifles I have developed a taste for is the Howa 1500

· Registered
724 Posts
Almost every mannlicher-schoenauer would do that. The smoothness of a euro action combined with the low friction of a rotary mag makes it smooooth. i ran across 1 at a show 5 or so years back in 264 win mag 1 of my altime fav calibers. The price was good except it was missing the mag which IF you can find one cost around 400$ just for the mag. It sucks that the mags are machined for eacgh caliber.
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