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· Premium Member
4,133 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The following was sourced from a user via
Considering the current atmosphere and in anticipation of a _possible_ (not sure thing) AWB, then the following just may pay for itself in spades for those of us that can apply as much...

[quote="My Form 4 is approved (those in NFA states should read this aka Trust transfer)" by 'Toovira']
As I promised a few members about updating on a trust transfer, here it is (deasmuth, you better be listening). Well, my AAC Pilot is going to be in my possession soon. My story began when my Republican Sheriff told me that he signs off everything, but silencers. Roll Eyes He said the public perception is not good. Big Grin

I considered corporate route as anyone would until I found out that Title II weapons can go into a Trust. why did I choose a Trust?

1. Easy to establish in a lot of states. My state requires only the Drafted trust to be notarized and witnessed.

2. I don't pay corporate fee every year to the state...typically $100+. Money is not the big thing, but the fact that you have to remember to do this means a lot to me.....just a pain when you own few cans and have to pay it every year.

3. I don't have to deal with the corporate regulations and filings - all the filings that you ahve to do every organization,etc.

4. It transfers like a corp - no pictures, no fingerprinting, and no sign-off.

So first step is to start a revocable living trust and don't bother with EIN. Make sure you comply with your state's law. Once you have the trust, the fun begins. Buy whatever you want, all you have to do is fill Form 4 with your trust info, mail in a copy of your drafted and notarized trust, and wait.

Consult with your attorney for any legal questions.[/quote]

He then continues later in the thread to state the details...

You have to be a US Citizen to own any NFA if you are not a citizen, don't even bother trying to get a signature.

A Trust is sort of like a will, but have few differences. For a will, you own the property until you die, then it goes to the beneficiary. A trust, on the other hand, is a legal (but non-physical, aka bodiless) entity that allows you to transfer any properties into it and as a matter of fact, for a trust to be effective, there must be something that's owned by that trust.

A Corporation is also a legal bodiless entity. It's formed usually by filing with Department of Corporation in any state. Delaware is a popular one for tax purposes.

Limited Liability Company (LLC) is also the same concept, but less hassle than corporation. LLC also gives the supposed unpiercable corporate veil (hence the name). Again, LLC can be started in most states. I reserached this route and one thing in my state that kills me is that I'm required to have a registered agent aka a company's attorney. The attorneys down here wants $250 a year on top of $120 a year filing fee. In some states, a corporation also requires a regiestered agent. Yes, all the attorney's office does for $250 a year is typing up a letter saying that we are representing whatever LLC as a registered agent.

ATF allows you to transfer to any legal entity, such as yourself, a corporation, LLC, and a trust. If you are in a corporation or LLC, in order to transfer NFA item into the corp or LLC, you must be an officer of the company. Easy enough, if you incorporate by yourself, why not make yourself CEO and President. This is done via (and forgive me for not using the correct legal terms) a corporate structure form that you file every year with your respective state's Dept. of Corp.

Trust obviously has a lot different purposes than LLC or corp as you can see. You can start a trust, put anything to the trust ownership, such as bank account, land, jewelry, safe deposit box....practically anything that you can own. There are some tax implications also that I read about that gives you an advantage over a will. So for the fact that a trust is a legal entity, that's how you can transfer NFA items into it.

There are few types of trust, mainly irrevocable and revocable living trust. Irrevocable trust cannot be changed or revoked, unlike revocable. Obviously, you want to add things into the trust, so obvious choice is revocable living trust aka inter vivos.

Basic parties of a trust is typically-
Grantor/trustee - the person who starts the trust and have the right to change anything in the trust as wish.
Executor - Person who will execute and ensure that everything the grantor wishes to be done after death is done. It is a legal responsibility and for a high dollar trust, you typically use an attorney, but it can be anyone.
And of course, the benificiary.

You have to do research on how to start it within your state, as each state is different. As mentioned before, my state requires only the trust to be drafted, notarized, and witnessed. Some state may require an attorney to draft a trust. Some state may require you to register the trust. It depends and this is where the work has ot be done.

Quicken WillMaker was my savior in starting this tells you step by step what needs to be done.

For more,

This plan/method won't work for everyone but it may be a viable option for folks as depending on your own state & local legal situation. Myself we have an irrevocable trust and I own a corporation. I think I'll look into the corporation avenue as that would be easier for me in life overall. For others though the use of a trust (revocable) just may be the hot ticket as it can be applied toward other items in your personal life as well.

As always though _do your own homework and check with a qualified attorney_ to verify all internet information that might could otherwise gain you fees, fines, or even worst jail time (!).

- Janq

· Registered
767 Posts
Janq...please explain what you are getting at,

are you saying.... if a new AWB passes then AWB could still be purchased thru a Trust or the Trust would prevent the confiscation of a AWB weapon?

With my SBR I still have to follow MA AWB laws as mine is a post ban
A trust would have to obey the same laws

· Premium Member
4,133 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes thats my thinking Duc, in the event of an AWB.
What today is normal every day such as purchasing an AR or high cap magazine would tomorrow become a special class of item, as currently unspecified.

- Janq

· Premium Member
4,133 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ducman said:
Unfortunately I don't see them getting added to Title ii firearms, I just see an outright ban... :(
Fingers crossed...

"Wonder twin powers...ACTIVATE!...Form of 'Optimist'!" :p

You're right though, an outright ban is Pelosi & Co. as well as the Brady's wet dream.
But they know that such an effort would be herculean under todays times, their best chance toward that was 20 years ago when people in general were less educated and vocal about their guns. The NRA alone has grown tremendously since the last AWB passed, and even that was not easily won.
I think at best concessions would be made and thats the premise of my thoughts toward this...but it's nothing more than a buess at best.

If an outright ban comes along well then we're fucked and there is no legal krptonite for that. :|
Oh well this info is good stuff anyway even for today.

- Janq
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