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Preface: For the record I am not a 'survivalist' by definition. Some others of you may be and that is IMHO totally fine for you. I just don't happen to watch Jericho nor involve myself to any real end in following of as much. Maybe I should, who knows.
The following posting is old dating back to last fall relative to a reallife & real world happening that occured back in 2005. I came across it last night by accident while searching for some other item at Gabe Suarez's 'WarriorTalk' forum where I am a member. The author of this posting provide an extremely long and detailed assesment of his own experience and lessons learned upon living in and amongst a society where things have gone from civilized to shitwith a snap. Like with anything else this advisory should be taken with a grain of salt as one mans life experience is not 1:1 with anothers. But he does IMHO provide some very interesting and relevant information overall that in specific we American self defense minded types might find interesting if not educational.

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As posted by 'Travis' at WarriorTalk

"Thoughts On Urban Survival - Life in Post Collapse Argentina, Oct. 2005"

For discussion as suggested by Anthony:

THOUGHTS ON URBAN SURVIVAL
Life in Post-Collapse Argentina, Oct. 2005
http://baxter.redirectme.net:81/tmp/shtf_argentina.htm


My brother visited Argentina a few weeks ago. He’s been living in Spain for a few years now. Within the first week, he got sick, some kind of strong flu, even though the climate isn’t that cold and he took care of himself. Without a doubt he got sick because there are lots of new viruses in my country that can’t be found in 1st world countries. The misery and famine lead us to a situation where, even though you have food, shelter and health care, most others don’t, and therefore they get sick and spread the diseases all over the region.

What got me started on this post is the fact that I actually saw this coming, and posted on the subject here at Frugal’s, [frugalsquirrels.com] months before the new viruses spread over the country and the news started talking about this new health emergency, which proves that talking, thinking and sharing ideas with like-minded people (you guys), does help me to see things coming and prepare for them with enough time. So I started thinking about several issues, what I learned (either the hard way or thanks to this forum) after all these years of living in a collapsed country that is trying to get out an economical disaster and everything that comes along with it. Though my English is limited, I hope I’m able to transmit the main ideas and concepts, giving you a better image of what you may have to deal with some day, if the economy collapses in your country. Here is what I have so far:

URBAN OR COUNTRY?
Someone once asked me how did those that live in the country fare. If they were better off than city dwellers. As always there are no simple answers. Wish I could say country good, city bad, but I can’t, because if I have to be completely honest, and I intend to be so, there are some issues that have to be analyzed, especially security. Of course those that live in the country and have some land and animals were better prepared food-wise. No need to have several acres full of crops. A few fruit trees, some animals, such as chickens, cows and rabbits, and a small orchard were enough to be light years ahead of those in the cities. Chickens, eggs and rabbits would provide the proteins, a cow or two for milk and cheese, some vegetables and fruit plants covered the vegetable diet, some eggs or a rabbit could be traded for flour to make bread and pasta or sugar and salt.

Of course that there are exceptions, for example, some provinces up north have a desert climate, and it almost never rains. It is almost impossible to live off the land, and animals require food and water you have to buy. Those guys had it bad; no wonder the northern provinces suffer the most in my country. Those that live in cities, well they have to manage as they can. Since food prices went up about 200%-300%. People would cut expenses wherever they could so they could buy food. Some ate whatever they could; they hunted birds or ate street dogs and cats, others starved. When it comes to food, cities suck in a crisis. It is usually the lack of food or the impossibility to acquire it that starts the rioting and looting when TSHTF.

When it comes to security things get even more complicated. Forget about shooting those that mean you harm from 300 yards away with your MBR [main battle rifle]. Leave that notion to armchair commandos and 12 year old kids that pretend to be grown ups on the internet.

Some facts:

1) Those that want to harm you/steal from you don’t come with a pirate flag waving over their heads.

2) Neither do they start shooting at you 200 yards away.

3) They won’t come riding loud bikes or dressed with their orange, convict just escaped from prison jump suits, so that you can identify them the better. Nor do they all wear chains around their necks and leather jackets. If I had a dollar for each time a person that got robbed told me “They looked like NORMAL people, dressed better than we are”, honestly, I would have enough money for a nice gun. There are exceptions, but don’t expect them to dress like in the movies.

4) A man with a wife and two or three kids can’t set up a watch. I don’t care if you are SEAL, SWAT or John Freaking Rambo, no 6th sense is going to tell you that there is a guy pointing a gun at your back when you are trying to fix the water pump that just broke, or carrying a big heavy bag of dried beans you bought that morning.

The best alarm system anyone can have on a farm are dogs. But dogs can get killed and poisoned. A friend of mine had all four dogs poisoned on his farm one night, they all died. After all these years I learned that even though the person that lives out in the country is safer when it comes to small time robberies, that same person is more exposed to extremely violent home robberies. Criminals know that they are isolated and their feeling of invulnerability is boosted. When they assault a country home or farm, they will usually stay there for hours or days torturing the owners. I heard it all: women and children getting raped, people tied to the beds and tortured with electricity, beatings, burned with acetylene torches. Big cities aren’t much safer for the survivalist that decides to stay in the city. He will have to face express kidnappings, robberies, and pretty much risking getting shot for what’s in his pockets or even his clothes.

So, where to go? The concrete jungle is dangerous and so is living away from it all, on your own. The solution is to stay away from the cities but in groups, either by living in a small town-community or sub division, or if you have friends or family that think as you do, form your own small community. Some may think that having neighbors within “shouting” distance means losing your privacy and freedom, but it’s a price that you have to pay if you want to have someone to help you if you ever need it. To those that believe that they will never need help from anyone because they will always have their rifle at hand, checking the horizon with their scope every five minutes and a first aid kit on their back packs at all times…. Grow up.

SERVICES
What ever sort of scenario you are dealing with, services are more than likely to either suffer in quality or disappear all together. Think ahead of time; analyze possible SHTF scenarios and which service should be affected by it in your area. Think about the most likely scenario but also think outside the box. What’s more likely? A tornado? But a terrorist attack isn’t as crazy as you though it would be a few years ago, is it?
Also analyze the consequences of those services going down. If there is no power then you need to do something about all that meat you have in the fridge, you can dry it or can it. Think about the supplies you would need for these tasks before you actually need them. You have a complete guide on how to prepare the meat on you computer… how will you get it out of there if there is no power? Print everything that you consider important.

WATER
No one can last too long without water. The urban survivalist may find that the water is of poor quality, in which case he can make good use of a water filter, or that there is no water available at all. When this happens, a large city were millions live will run out of bottled water within minutes. In my case, tap water isn’t very good. I can see black little particles and some other stuff that looks like dead algae. Taste isn’t that bad. Not good but I know that there are parts of the country where it is much worse. To be honest, a high percentage of the country has no potable water at all.

If you can build a well, do so, set it as your top of the list priority as a survivalist.
Water comes before firearms, medicines and even food...

The entirety of his posting which is very long & detailed can be found at; http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=16507

- Janq is and will continue to be a survivor
 

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I very lightly read the survival forum on the sksboards and the general consensus is you Bug the f Out in this scenario. Prepare yourself a BOB and head for nature. :D I'm lucky to live in a rural setting. Not to say these things aren't a good general rule of thumb though in this day and age.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
In the guys report he talks about the real world results of as much as applied to city dwellers and those in rural areas who it's commonly assumed will be best off. They aren't, or rather are/were in Argentina by a minute amount.
I know it's a long read but for me atleast I found it fascinating in scope.

BTW you and every other Jeremiah Johnson type will be fleeing for woods likely not owned by them but the state or worst civilian land owners who are fearful, distrusting, and very likely to revert back to caveman/old west sense of law and 'rightness'.
What then when you are being fired on first for trespass or worst theft of post SHTF very valuable resources be it land, shelter, food (fruits, veggies and meat), or clean/cleanable water access?

IRL it would be really bad for everyone no matter where you go. :(
Ironically I think we would be in an okay to better mode because folks in our community are by pacifistic hug butt hippie nature more open with working coopoertaively in support of community and sharing of resources. For example my neighbors at the far end of the block run a local produce & fruit farm as a secondary business and I'm sure he'd help out our block if not the town as he already gives food away as it is to the poor, hungry, and to our local block party events.
But then that would last only untill the marauding horde come in from surrounding Springfield, Holyoke and Worcester bringing their city folk, huddled masses, and criminals with intent. They would own us as it would be like me and maybe one hundred others who actually own a firearm and know how to use it. :/

- Janq
 

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You must register to read the whole article.

The idea of something like this happening in the US isn't at all far fetched. Argentine isn't just some dinky 3rd world country. They have many many mnay natural resources but government mismanagement of money and corruption drove the peso value way down and destroyed half the jobs. No money no food no medicine in the cities and guerilla's rolling in the mountains and country side and police and military that have been bought so many times thay don't even know who their working for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Damn...I'll look into copying the whole post and rehosting it for you guys.
It's a very intersting read IMHO.
Agreed, Argentina is a first world country.

- Janq
 

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THat's a fucking awesome read, I read it a year or so ago.. possibly there have been updates on the guy's situation since. Basically what I personally got out of it was:

1. Don't be there! Bug out! If you have the means and the money, move to an area/country where the S is not hitting the F. You'll regret it otherwise.

2. A rifle is not your best friend, your sidearm is because it will be with you all the time, which is when you'll need it.

3. Invest in body armor during peacetime, while you still can.
 

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In a situation like they have even firearms don't help you much. You need numbers. Any place you try to go alone you'll most likely encounter gangs and be greatly out numbered. If you are of some wealth your held for ransom if your average your just killed for your possessions.
 

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I'm still in the process of reading the whole thing...

IF you haven't read it before... read it meow.

everything jamz has pointed out is the same I'm taking away.
 

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ok, i just got done reading about 2/3s of the full post in the link. The one constantly reinforced idea is numbers. efficiency/effectiveness/survivability of numbers. city, rural, or otherwise, the one thing that seems to consistently tip the scales for the GG's and the BG's is numbers. anyone interested in a SHTF gunny collaboration plan? might be hard for a lot of us to get together but having a plan for a EOTWAWKI in cali might not be a bad idea to have on the books.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Agreed NN toward numbers...and agreed Jamz regarding pistols and concealable easy to deploy defensive tools.

Folks on forums talk garbage about having long distance sniper rifles and what have you. Not useful. Great for military actions but not so good elsewise.
Don't take my word for it though just ask a Bosnian or a Vietnamese who survived their own countries urban/suburban and country too insurrections. Same applies WWII Europeans as well. A rifle is good but a pistol is right now OH SNAP WHERE'D HE GET THAT FROM BAKDAFUCKUP stop, drop, and roll out of here BG looter/burgalar/raper/predator disuader.

As to having numbers I have seen and experienced and been part of as much just walking the streets of DC and MD in my bad old days of youth. Numbers are always good to have. Even better when said numbers are a able bodied _and_ minded tight knit band.
Rule of the streets in my day was you always want to have 'back'. Never go anywhere without backup. And if you do/have to then you better bring abilities and skill sets, and tools. Oh, and you never leave your boy behind.

Anyway as the saying goes no man is an island.

As a secondary update to this thread the same guy now runs a blog about his life, living , and survival in post collapse Argentina which I've been reading since summer.
If just half of his statements and observations of people and behavior are true, and again as based on my own direct life experiences I believe they are, then this stuff is must read and _know/remember_ information for anyone who might have thought what went on in NOLA was a ignorant/poor/'inner city'/Black people only problem. That is untrue and ones own block is just a recession away from becoming Escape from New York style.

http://ferfal.blogspot.com

- Snake Pliskin
 

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just got done watching "The Take", the Argentina documentary. good video! completely changed my perspective of "community" and "democracy" alike. Seeing the banks all tagged up with "thieves!" in red spray paint, gave me chills.
 

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its my opinion as this as concerning firearms in a situation:

I don't believe it'll be a "lights out" or *insert post-apocalyptic survival fiction" ... I believe that a battle rifle may have its use in a *rare* defensive situation... but by and large a pistol and/or shotgun will be the main bread winners. As has been said, pistol is always at your side. Most of us will be trying to protect our families and make end's meat, which means protecting the home, and the main provider to and fro work, and if the pistol can't do it, the shotgun will. I don't foresee a "roving changing guards" taking security of the community perimeter. I see it as a "protecting your house" kind of thing. For many reasons, but the main being that few, if any, in a community will break out of the sheeple mindset and further lend their own neck, and thus the safety of their own family, on the line to do such.

If you envision an America where there's resistance fighters with AK/AR's slung on their back as they farm the community farm... sorry , I just don't see it. This isn't a response in particular to anything said in this thread, but more per the comments in the WarriorTalk thread and the survival thread from ARforums
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Agreed Matt.

BTW I stopped visiting WarriorTalk last year.
Gabe Suarez is okay and all but the people on that board and his disciples, they just turn me off and I have to say come across to me like those wannabe gangstas and off brand ***** people with the braids in their hair talking about how they gonna fuck you up if you step to them and such n such nonsense posturing.
That forum has some signal but to my view it's largely noise.

- Janq
 
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