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What would you do/choose?

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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As you folks know I've been very interested in a multi caliber capable rifle.
Up to now I've had my sights strongly on the MGI 'Hydra' upper & lower which handles 5.56 and 7.62 as well as down the road a whole slew of scheduled calibers from .22LR (training) to 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel and pistol calibers as well.
It's a bad ass product and confirmed to be 100% functional not to mention it's designers are people of high repute (IBarmalite) and both are former operators as well. A whole assy. of parts runs $2K and you have to build it yourself because they don't have BATF approval to sell a complete built rifle as a manufacturer.

Second is the FN SCAR which as per it's mission statement can be reconfigured to support 5.56 (SCAR-Light) or .308 (SCAR-Heavy).
It's still officially a prototype even as FN has been marketing the product to civilians since SHOT 2006 and promising that it's on the way any month now, since last spring. Bottom line it's unavailable today and nobody knows when it'll come online if at all tomorrow.

There are of course other AR uppers out there that technically support multi caliber capability but they involve replacing the entire upper/receiver assy. which is not cheap. We're talking anywhere from $600 on up per caliber per upper. Yeah, no thanks...not a viable option for a multitude of reasons.

Another option is the direct project competitor to the FN SCAR, the Robinson Arms 'XCR'.
It's by design multi-caliber capable, does not require a new upper to do so, simply involves swapping out of the barrel, bolt, barrel, and mag then boom you got a swap over. Currently they support only 5.56 with the bolt & barrel coming soon for a .308/7.76 variant coming very soon as well as 6.8 SPC due next year and they are looking at 6.5 Grendel as well. No pistol caliber support is mentioned which likely is due to the mag housing not being interchangeable like that of the MGI product. For some folks this is of no concern while IMHO the MGI has a leg up in that dept. Oh, and the XCR runs $1200 street and is sold in MA via amongst others Four Seasons...woot woot! :banana:

So with that small item aside (no SMG capability as yet/planned) the Robinson 'XCR' has a good amount of other advantages going for it including ergonomics, hardened receiver design, simplification of internals, and it's based on a modified Kalishnikov internal design for maximal durability and reliability. It gets even more interesting than that but the the story is told at their website so go there to the FAQ for the full detail; http://www.robarm.com/XCR FAQs.htm

So I wonder how do you folks who are better informed than I am in regard to rifles in general and some of you being armorers in specific feel about the Robinson Arms 'XCR'.
Up untill this weekened I'd heard about it and them prior but last I heard the designer was somewhat sketchy (so says a respected person at THR) and that delivery of product was off put by months and months for months. I'd not given them any serious consideration until discovering this weekend that they had shipped a number of units during late summer and they are now highly regarded by folks who unlike myself are not rifle newbies, some of them being warfighters and operators themselves.

I ask you guys what would you do/choose?
At this point I'm stymied.

Wait for the FN SCAR...holding my breath until it turns blue, or Nancy Pelosi reactivates the AWB. :(
Spend like $2K total on an MGI and build it myself which hurts both ways.
Go with the Robinson XCR which doesn't itself have a lot of track record but is looking to be very good even as it cannot now support pistol rounds which is a bummer.
Some would say damn all that man, buy an RRA for ~$1K on the relative cheap and pick up multiple other rifles in calibers of your choice even as it might total up to like $4K never mind FFL fees and inconvenience of storing all that.

Below are pics of the XCR for those who are not familiar with it...

XCR-L 5.56 Close Quarter Combat (CQC)





http://www.robarm.com/xcrtm_modular_weapon_system.htm

- Janq needs your input
 

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My problem with Multi caliber set-ups is that you have to make sure you keep all the pieces together and don't mix them up. Switching an entire uppr is much easier and safer since all the parts for the caliber stay together, you don't need to worry about having the correct barrel and bolt, which by the way must be head spaced correctly, things can get real ugly if everything isn't just right.

Given the choices I think Robar would be the best bet. They've be building quality weapons for a long time and they kow what they're doing and stand behind their products.

The only factory built multi cal. gun I've personally ever use is the Erma Sr 100 which is a bolt gun in .308Win/300winmag/338lapua which required just a bolt,barrel and mag change. With QD rings you could change everything including scope if needed and be back in the game aquiring targets in under 2 minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Jeremy,

The Robinson XCR requires no headspacing and as I understand it the bolts for the Robinson are stamped with the applicable cartridge it's intended to be used for.
I understand the folks at MGI have done the same marking both the bolt and the carrier for use within their upper.

The folks over at MGI have been designing firearms and building assemblies for some time as well with the founder having been one of the key designers and partial owner of Armalite when they first came online. They like RobArms have a long history of establishment. They just aren't setup as a manufacturer so they can't ship a complete builtup firearm just the parts and pieces which the buyer then may assemble.
Their stuff costs a grip though even as they are more flexible overall.

Neither the RobArm or the MGI product lose their zero setting upon change of the barrel due their design. Of course though with caliber change real performance does change even as the scope setting for zero does not.

I'm so split on this.
I will be reaching out to RobArms directly to inquire about future bolts, barrels and mag adapters toward coverage of pistol ammo including .22LR and 9MM/.40/.45ACP.
Heck the MGI product will even support .500 as per a planned future bolt & carrier group, and their system allows one to use any aftermarket AR barrel one might like unlike the proprietary system of the XCR. But then the XCR is way cheaper.

Sigh...

- Janq
 

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All bolts and barrels require headspacing to ensure their saf. In the case of the XRC everything comes from Robar who is a manufacture so this is done before you get it. With the MGI setup the only sell parts so you will have to have the bolt and barrel of each caliber you buy headspaced to ensure they match correctly. You could buy from other places RRA makes 9mm and 458socom assemblies but like the M-16 barrels you need a damn machine shop to all the mod's to make the barrel fit.

The barrel for the rifle I'm building for a buddies wife just showed up, for that I had to send the action to Shilen in Tx so they could headspace it rather than having to take it to a 'smith here. The same with my match bolt and barrel for my Ar I sent the bolt to Hart in Ny so they could do it.
 

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Negative Nancy
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I've taken one apart, if you want the gun to shoot more than 5 thousand rounds, don't get it. it has steel operating parts riding on an anodized aluminum receiver. not completely unlike the AR, but the bolt carrier group (which falls apart in your hands once you take it out) isn't perfectly cylindrical.

to say that a bolt doesn't require headspacing is very ignorant/irresponsible. their bolt is an AK 3 lug locking into a corresponding barrel extension. unless ALL of their barrels are chambered 99.9% identically, you'll need to headspace.

Oh and what holds the barrel assembly in the upper receiver (which is grotesquely tall in person)? a single set screw.

the buttstock weighs a ton and isn't connected very rigidly to the receiver (if you're used to ARs, if you're used to folding AK stocks, you'll be happy)

on the plus side, it has a nice charging handle (FAL copy)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Understod Jeremy and again the XCR in specific doesn't require headspacing by the user, per their own statements.

Bolt: Proprietary three-lug. Locks into extension of barrel so no headspacing is required when changing barrels.

http://www.robarm.com/XCR_Specifications.htm
I knew/know that the MGI would require as much.
But thanks none the less for the info in the event I didn't know.

Einzelherz they offer a lighterweight buttstock as an option.


http://www.robarm.com/proddetail.asp?prod=VTORC
Additionally they have an AR adapter for folks who prefer something else, or as in my case by state law can't have a folding buttstock on a rifle.
Interesting info about the bolt carrier group not being round and I'll make sure to ask them about that in combination with the receiver being aluminu toward expected wear. I knew about the single set screw holding the barrel and thats shown in the take down video they have; http://www.robarm.com/xcr 7.62x39 conversion mpg.mpg

I'll call over to the folks at Four Seasons as well to inquire to them about the items you've brought up.
This is all good stuff. I'm still up in the air on this, and Duc I'm pretty much against buying multiple rifles. It would be fun of course but it goes against my do more with less sensibilities. :p
If it can't be done reliably though then well so much for the unconventional. :\

Thanks guys I'll keep you looped as I learn more info, good, bad, or ugly.

- Janq

P.S. - Duc, Larry Frisoli lost. Four more years of suck, assuming it doesn't get colder in hell. :(
 

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Janq said:
I'll call over to the folks at Four Seasons as well to inquire to them about the items you've brought up.
This is all good stuff. I'm still up in the air on this, and Duc I'm pretty much against buying multiple rifles. It would be fun of course but it goes against my do more with less sensibilities. :p
If it can't be done reliably though then well so much for the unconventional. :\

- Janq

P.S. - Duc, Larry Frisoli lost. Four more years of suck, assuming it doesn't get colder in hell. :(
Yeah, we are screwed. I would get all you can now before the laws change.

Re: your do more with less.....
I think you will have less fun with a multi caliber rifle. here is why ;)
1. it will shoot the same, with only kick and report being different
2. more can go wrong with conversions
3. we shoot for fun, shooting different weapons is fun shooting the same rifle will get boring
4. shooting different platforms will make you a better shooter

get an ar15 in .223, and a shotty like a 1187
start shooting 3-gun, you can both for less than what you want above and have alot more fun and use :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Good points Duc and I definitely want to give a go at 3 gun.
Jeebus fuck you Nancy Pelosi and Martha Coakley!!!1! :mad:

- Janq
 

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Negative Nancy
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i've recently been in a little love fest with the AR-18. it's so thin and light and damn would that thing shoot forever.

me no likey direct gas.
 
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