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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As reported via Boston.com:

Robber sues victims after they beat him

June 12, 2006

ROCHESTER, N.Y. --A man is suing an auto-parts store for assault and battery after he attempted to hold up the business and employees responded by beating him with a metal pipe.

Dana Buckman, 46, walked into an auto shop brandishing a semiautomatic pistol last summer, only to have it turned on him by two AutoZone employees, police said. The men beat Buckman with a metal pipe and held him with his own gun.

Buckman escaped and was arrested a week later.

He pleaded guilty to first-degree robbery and was sentenced to 18 years in prison as a repeat violent felon.

Buckman claims the men chased him out of the store and continued to beat him. He is suing the auto shop and the men for the injuries he suffered and for emotional distress.

"In some respects, you wonder if a case like this even needs a defense. It speaks for itself," said lawyer Patrick B. Naylon, who represents AutoZone and the employees.

But lawyer Phillip R. Hurwitz, who represents Buckman, said the employees crossed the line by pursuing Buckman and attacking him.

"The danger was past," Hurwitz said. "These two employees took it upon themselves to go after Mr. Buckman after he left the store."

The story can be found at; http://www.boston.com/news/odd/articles/2006/06/12/robber_sues_victims_after_they_beat_him/

- Janq

Lesson Learned: Many CCW and self defense instructors as well as internet advisors advise; 'Do not become the offender'.
What does that mean? It goes like this. BG attacks you. You defend yourself and by hook or crook turn the tables to overcome circumstances and him/them. They sense failure and attempt to retreat. You then give chase out of anger, fear they might return, whatever...and continue the fight effectively escalting what had moments prior changed from a defensive situation to what is not offensive, with you in control of things.
It can happen that quickly too, at the snap of a finger...or bone...or trigger.
Even as those BGs who trespass against us should not, we as defenders of ourselves andown do not by law have the right to exact revenge. Vengeance is unlawful. Thats where these two victims from the AutoZone store have gotten themselves into trouble, and the crook as well as his attorney have a valid point....IF they can prove that his injuries and their actions occurred _after_ he had given up, turned tail, and fled or attempted to flee. It's a fine line and very important, not to mention costly.
I'm not saying that the BG here is an angel or that the AutoZone guys were not victims, becuase they were. But to put it simply at playground rule levels if a kid picks a fight with you and you succesfully defend yourself enough to cause the bully to change his mind and say 'No Mas'. If you then continue beating the bully, for what ever reason you might have had in the heat of the moment (e.g. rage!), then now the tables have turned and it is now you who is the aggressor...and the bully who becomes a victim in that next instant of a moment. This is exactly what happened to the cabbie guy in Boston a few weeks ago who shot a robber in the back as he fled, upon robbing the cabbie just moments prior. One has to know when to step on the gas, and in kind we also have to know when to hit the brakes...and how hard.
This case could very well likely result in the AutoZone or the two workers in specific coughing up some dimes & dollars, as per the letter of NY state law.

- Janq
 

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great post

think kenny rogers -
 

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You know, legally the GG has his hands tied against the BG. Like you said, you can't turn the tables legally and exert vengeance on the BG. However, depending on the situation (ie. family harmed etc), I really don't know what I'd do. If our legal system was proven to work and one knew justice was for sure going to be served, it might be easier to let the BG off. In just about all of my dealings with "the man" and/or legal system, it has failed me miserably. The scum of this earth need more of a deterant these days. "They're getting away with murder."

I hope I never have to make that choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Getting away with murder, literally.
DJ9 see my post toward justice in Lousiana that I'd made in the Off Topic area just after this one.

On the one hand we as the GG-Victim have to mind & obey the lway, both in spirit and to the letter. While the BGs they don't give a shit nor do they have much in the way of real motivation not to press our buttons as they know we have to follow the rules, or else. Not to mention their is always a Shyster, Screw, Gimme and Associates, Attorneys at Law group just dying to take up any case they think they might be able to squeeze some insurance money from (AutoZone) or take the college money of an otherwise and initially victimized GG citizen.

Very seriously crap like this worries me and I can see & understand how it is many people say they choose not to want to CCW or keep a weapon in their home and figure they will leave it to the police and pray that the raping, if it ever comes, is over quickly and mercifully.
I mean hell the personal liability and real world results of defending ones self can be just as dire if not worst, and thats before the media catches wind of it and drags your prior good & private name through the mud as a 'vigilante'. :|
I pray none of us Gunatics ever has to make that choice and that all this news article posting and discussion is a tremendous waste of time.

Be careful out there.

- Janq
 

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News posting is definitely not a waste of time. I for one always appreciate the insight and updates brought to this site.

But again, I'll choose to protect myself and others as I see fit and have faith that the right thing will be done. Like you said, hopefully none of us have to even be in that situation.
 

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Thats why "he reached in his pocket, I did not know if he had another gun"

even if there not at the time willing to kill you why let him end up killing someone else or even come back for you another day when he gets out of jail...

thats why if someone comes in my house after me with a weapon there not going to get the chance to come back with friends and more weapons... Thats what the C-mags for..

I do emphasize that IF he has a weapon...
 

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Jeremy said:
I prolly shouldn't say this but in an "iffy" SD situation, dead men tell no tales.
So true.

I would much rather have to only make my side of the story fit than some lying ass BG who will say anything to keep from going to jail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Kind of off topic but last night I watched via TiVO a National Geogrpahic special about women in prison and they profiled a specific womens only prison in CA. I forget the name of the prison but thats of no consequence.
I watched the wole hour and it did three things for me;

1) Reinforced my already very strong belief to never ever never go to jail/prison. If I did so I'd either be eaten alive or wind up crazy as I strived and did whatever necessary to survive it.
2) Criminals regardless of gender, age, appearance, race, stature, weight (be they 140 lbs or 300lbs.), intelligence, or whatever...can decide to end you and will if decided try very hard to do so at their own whim at a moments notice.
3) Made me feel very very appreciative of the fact that God and my own on the fly decision making has kept my Black ass out of the system. It might seem like such a simple thing to do, but folks where I grew up and most of my oldest friends that I grew up with have not been as fortunate for a number of reasons.

Folks do whatever is right and legal and best to avoid going to jail, even for a little bit.
As well do not underestimate BGs, because they will fuck you up at a moments notice...even amongst themselves and do so without any remorse (!).

- Janq
 
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