[Petrus]

I need a fresh pair of eyes. I've made the following proposal in PP in hopes of generating an interesting debate (silly me). Where did I fail? Am I too mentally "out of it" to see what I've done wrong or have I just been wasting my time on nasioc.com for all these years?

My Proposal:

I've been struck by an absolute bit of genius. The complete solution to all our nasty little "gun problems". The best part? EVERYONE ends up happy because EVERYONE wins (or at least they think they do).

It's simple. Some people are scared of guns and want to control other people's lives. Other people love their guns and enjoy the freedoms we have in this country. So how can you make people so different both happy at the same time? It's easy, give them both what they want.

Take CA/MA/PA/NY and make them all "gun free zones" let them pass every gun control law they want and every restriction they can think of. To those who enjoy guns and live in those locations, I'm sorry (but the pot is sweetened for you as well... and I myself will be leaving Taxachussets and heading for New Hampshire). Take the rest of the USA, all the other states, and put their "gun control" policies on par with say Texas/New Hampshire. CCW process more or less the way it is now with perhaps a bit more training available. Also, make sure that criminals know that MA/CA/NY/PA are "gun free zones" and that they can't bring their guns there.

Let the experiment run for a few years and see where things go. I'm sure that those laws will keep guns/ or perhaps more importantly gun wielding criminals from trying to commit crimes in those "gun-free states" with their guns. I'm also sure that they couldn't be clever enough to prefer preying on unarmed civilians.

What say you PP? Surely those states would become the safest stages in the US. I'm sure you'd all rejoice at being lucky enough to have a nice safe place to live in where the evil guns won't come and get you.


A small aside: I personally couldn't be happier to help criminals find a nice place to attack and pillage unarmed citizens far away from myself and the best part is that the unarmed will be thrilled to be held at knife (dare I say illegally obtained/carried gun?) point to give away their belongings.

Go ahead anti-gun folk. Bash my idea. Scared of your own laws/ideas? I certainly am.






The crazy thread/mess that ensued:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17814062&posted=1#post17814062

Have I goofed or is PP just goofier than I expected?

I was really just hoping... *hoping* that some people would see how ridiculous a lot of the current laws are, but it seems people are so entrenched in their positions that there's no hope for a rational debate. :sigh:

 

[fatcat]

I think DC tryed something like this and now its getting lifted lol...

 

[Petrus]

^ Bingo, but it goes unopposed on the smaller scale e.g. campuses

I was hoping people would see that if it doesn't make any sense on a state level there shouldn't be much reason for it to work on most of the lower levels it's applied to.

 

[DJ 9iron]

Why the fuck do you drag PA into your stupid idea?

And why are you wasting your time on that website? Garbage.

 

[Petrus]

PA recently proposed that absolutely ridiculous gun-regulation stuff. I was personally very surprised to hear they would even think about such regulations. I can try and find the link if you'd like.

You're also right about that site. There's just too much bad mixed in at this point that I'm really not sure why I bother going there. I think I must just stick around here from now on.

link to PA story: There seems to be little support but I just really wasn't/am not very well acquainted with PA's usual gun regulation M.O. I didn't mean to offend PAers.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1248248

 

[Bobula]

You'd have a revolution on your hands. In CA i'd def be pushing for it.

 

[DJ 9iron]

PA recently proposed that absolutely ridiculous gun-regulation stuff. I was personally very surprised to hear they would even think about such regulations. I can try and find the link if you'd like.

You're also right about that site. There's just too much bad mixed in at this point that I'm really not sure why I bother going there. I think I must just stick around here from now on.

link to PA story: There seems to be little support but I just really wasn't/am not very well acquainted with PA's usual gun regulation M.O. I didn't mean to offend PAers.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1248248

http://www.gunatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1709

 

[Petrus]

DJ 9iron, you do realize I don't actually *want* this to happen right?

 

[DJ 9iron]

I hope not. The PA bill was a joke. The original sponsors pulled their names after the overwhelming negative response from the public. Leave it to some douche from Philly to start it. http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/house_bio.cfm?id=304

And then what does he have to show for not being allowed to carry in his hometown? This:
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/7140987.html

 

[Janq]

Practical proof that this concept will not nay does not work is to look at the crime stats for DC, MD, NJ, NYC, MA, and that of the BoP.

Yes, I said the Bureau of Prisons!
In prisons now weapons of any sorrt are allowed. Even prison guards are not allowed to carry a firearm.
Yet and still weapons of all sort including even firearms manufactured commercially or even hand & home made do come up in inspections of personnel and inmates too. I am totally 100% serious.
Further crime occurs, people get hurt and even killed with weapons, and crime is largely rampant in our nations prisons....even as all of this is against thr rules and 'law'. Amazing huh?

DC in specific has had it's full & complete gun ban in place for just over 30 years. Yet I can name without even trying or requiring a pause just off the top of my head atleast 20 people amongst my own family and friends who have been killed, shot, or shot at (including myself), by persons wielding firearms while within the boundairies of Washington D.C. proper.
How is that possible?! And more than half of these people including myself were not and/or are not involved in crime in general or drug trade in specific.

The laws, the laws...what about the laws!?

- Janq

 

[Petrus]

I hope not. The PA bill was a joke. The original sponsors pulled their names after the overwhelming negative response from the public. Leave it to some douche from Philly to start it. http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/house_bio.cfm?id=304

And then what does he have to show for not being allowed to carry in his hometown? This:
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/7140987.html

Wow, ridiculous. I'm hoping that there will finally be a return to reason as facts mount against the anti-gun side. Janq, you're completely right I just wish people could see it. Their logic seems so simple/right to them but is far too simplistic to effectively capture the reality of the situation.

In biology people often refer to cells as little "black boxes" of magic as you can often input A expecting B but instead get Z and Y.

People are even more complex and expecting to get B from A with human beings ("less guns = less violence") is ridiculous. I really wish MA would figure things out so I don't have to end up moving. Boston is a nice city but the current state of things bothers me to no end. The fact that they have to approve of guns (e.g. Janq's M&P .45 ) just ruins my remaining faith in the system.

:sigh:

PS: DJ 9iron, I hope you haven't ended up miffed with me as I was just proposing a ridiculous scenario to try and snap people out of "it". Everyone on this site seems to be quite rational/cool and hopefully thinks the same of myself. :mrgreen:

 

[DJ 9iron]

All is well.

 

[Janq]

Petrus,

Check out this article that was featured on the front page of yesterdays Sunday paper toward my region of Western MA...

Gun removal efforts of minimal success

Sunday, April 22, 2007
By BUFFY SPENCER
[email protected]

The jury is in.

Billboard blitzes, offering rewards, gun buybacks and confidential tip hot lines aren't the way most guns get taken off the streets in Western Massachusetts.

Instead, law enforcement officials say, it takes aggressive prosecution of gun crimes and the use of less-than-lawful snitches with something to gain to make progress in the fight to rid the streets of weapons.

Hampden County District Attorney William M. Bennett knows this from experience. His Project Remove effort, launched in 2000 to curb gun violence, paid out just $2,400 over the course of several years for a total of 11 tips that led police to people with illegal guns.

Holyoke Police Chief Anthony R. Scott contends buyback programs, like one planned Saturday in Springfield and East Longmeadow, simply create a "cottage industry" for guns.

Still, Bennett isn't sorry the Project Remove attempt was initiated. It just turned out that several of the program's initiatives, like the tip hot line and reward fund, got lackluster results. The 24-hour hot line, operated from the State Police barracks in Springfield, has been discontinued.

"The hot line has not really panned out. I found most people who want to get information to the police will call the police directly," Bennett said.

Other parts of Project Remove, though, have made significant progress, according to Bennett, and a new federal grant underscores some of that success.

A $122,000, two-year grant from the U.S. Department of Justice will allow Bennett's office to have a prosecutor assigned full time to U.S. District Court, Springfield, to coordinate gun cases between federal and state courts to ensure the most appropriate - and significant - prosecution.

The goal of this portion of the Project Remove program is to secure the maximum sentences for offenders. For a number of crimes, minimum mandatory sentences in federal court are much higher than in state court...

The full story can be found at; http://www.masslive.com/republican/...news-8/1177140010177900.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

So eureka!!!
It's amazing...actually convicting people and to the fullest extent of the law results in better real and practical results than letting them slide (to get out on parole and do more crimes) or applying toward them and citizens lots of lip service along with jingoistic 'programs'.

What was it that they say in the Bible about rods and spoilage?...

- Janq

"...Gun buyback programs don't do anything to get guns intended for criminal use off the street, Bennett said. But they do help in his office's efforts to assist law-abiding citizens with illegal guns in their possession in disposing of their firearms without facing criminal liability." - The Republican newspaper

 

[Petrus]

Petrus,

Check out this article that was featured on the front page of yesterdays Sunday paper toward my region of Western MA...



So eureka!!!
It's amazing...actually convicting people and to the fullest extent of the law results in better real and practical results than letting them slide (to get out on parole and do more crimes) or applying toward them and citizens lots of lip service along with jingoistic 'programs'.

What was it that they say in the Bible about rods and spoilage?...

- Janq

"...Gun buyback programs don't do anything to get guns intended for criminal use off the street, Bennett said. But they do help in his office's efforts to assist law-abiding citizens with illegal guns in their possession in disposing of their firearms without facing criminal liability." - The Republican newspaper

It's true what they say, people do learn best from their own mistakes. Hopefully people will figure things out before things get worse... :crosses fingers: