Gun Forums banner
1 - 20 of 100 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,
My first post in Gunatics.com thanks to brucelee that is very enthusiastic about the BOREALIS light.

I have posted this same thread in other forums to which I contribute, so forgive me if you have seen it before.
The goal is to make it a data base of flashlights and tactical lights, so the members have the chance to compare the intensity between them.

Thanks for your tolerance!

LIGHTS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT:

This post will try to show how different lights used in law enforcement compare with each other, and will clarify the difference between the lumen ratings used in Luxeon (LED) lights and incandescent lights.
In short, I will show (through pictures) how Luxeons lack definition when used at increased distances.

I have maintained for a long time that LED Luxeons don’t have the range over the incandescent to really be helpful for law enforcement. They are excellent lights to use inside the house; their beams are very clean, white and with substantial flood, and in the average house, that is all you need. However, when taken outside to the backyard, woods, or large structure and the distance to the target is 25 yards or more, they lack definition (as they lack the red spectrum of light), and their poor penetration of fog or rain makes them inefficient to clearly identify what you are seeing at that distance.
Moreover, when the subject being illuminated is an animal with a light-drinking fur (depth of texture), the blending effect of the LED’s (against the background) will cause the observer to lose perspective.

LOW LIGHT FOR WRITING

As the maker of Black Bear Flashlights, I have had the input of hundred of police officers that tell me what they really need to perform their functions at night.
What those experienced officers want are three lights that will cover specific illumination chores.
First, when writing a ticket at night, or looking for a dropped pencil in the floor of their own car or any other close up chore, they want a flood light in LED form: small and with an output of 20 lumens or less (LED lumens), and preferably with a clip incorporated to free both hands for holding the pad and writing.

LEO’s that have used my Fenix LOP (1 AAA) consider this light ideal (except for the lack of a clip). Another favorite is the ARC AAA. These lights can be held in the mouth without any discomfort.

Fenix has put out a bigger light (1 AA) with two stages output, and the lower output will be also ideal for these chores.

THE BELT LIGHT

Those same officers want to have a good light on their belt. Some prefer the two cell 123’s lights like the Surefire 6P, G2, or C-2 for their better flood beam over the more tightly focused Streamlight Scorpion, TL-2 and Night Fighter II (it is important for them to be able to cover an average room with the light, without the need of panning it).
They look for a run time of one hour and an output of 65 lumens.
Some opt for more intense lights like the Surefire 9P or the C-3 with their 105 lumens and one hour run time.
The Streamlight TL-3 is a little too tightly focused for clearing rooms, but it will do fine in an average backyard.
In LED form (Luxeon V), the Surefire L-4 is a good contender due to the excellent flood light that it puts out at medium range inside a house.

The main thing is that the officers want to avoid losing precious seconds by panning a light when entering a room. That is why the Surefires are preferred over the tightly focused others brands.

THE CAR LIGHT

These police officers wear a light holder in their belt (a plastic and leather ring). On exiting their cars, they slip in the ring one of the powerful rechargeable lights, most commonly the Magcharger (200 lumens) or the Ultra Stinger (295 lumens) and those that favor my products, a BOREALIS 1050 lumens.

Those are ideal lights for search, clearing houses, backyards, warehouses etc. Being rechargeable, they are always used with a maximum run time (taken out of the charger at start of the shift), a thing that you can not do with 123 batteries unless you are willing to dump half-used batteries at the start of a shift.

Their large diameter (2 inches) reflectors put more light at a longer distance than any of the belt lights. Even though some of the belt lights approach 200 lumens, they do it with reduced run time and much reduced throw, due to their small diameter reflectors.
A Magcharger will put a spot of light at 150 yards, as will the Ultra Stinger and a BOREALIS, which has the capability of illuminating the whole road for 250 yards.

Those lights are ideal for traffic stops, accident sites and the ones with major lumen output can even illuminate through heavily tinted windows.


Lets start with the popular Surefire G-2 (or 6 P) at 65 lumens, the target is the 8 by 12 tool shed at 30 yards.
We are going to pit the Surefire G-2 65 lumens $35.00 against the Surefire Digital Lumamax L-4 (also 65 lumens and with a price tag of $160.00).

Surefire G-2 65 lumens



Surefire L-4 Luxeon V, LED, 65 lumens



And now we are going to pit the Surefire 6 P with the P-61 120 lumen lamp (20 minutes run time) against the best Luxeon LED thrower that I have (similar to the cree LED).
This is a Mc Gizmo PR T head with a TWOJ bin Luxeon doing 120 plus lumens.

Surefire Centurion C-2 (same as the 6P) with the P-61 lamp, 120 lumens.



And the PR T with TWOJ bin Luxeon, (LED) @ 120 lumens



And now we are going to show a belt light of 200 lumens (The Surefire Centurion III with the P-91 lamp, 200 lumens, 20 minutes run) and three cars' lights of 200 lumens plus and beyond.

Surefire Centurion C-III, 200 lumens P-91 lamp.



And here the Magcharger also 200 lumens, with its bigger reflector and tighter focus will throw the light at 150 yards, while the Centurion III range will stop at 45 or 50 yards.

Magcharger 200 lumens (40,000 candlepowers)





And here is the Ultra Stinger, the most powerful of the rechargeables from Streamlight with 295 lumens and 75,000 candlepower.



And now the BOREALIS, the light that I provide my customers, with the format of a 3 D (12 1/2 inches long) outputting 1050 lumens for 50 minutes.



And even that they have been there all along thru the shootout of the lights, you can see them for the first time. My assistant is at the left of the tool shed, leaning on the second tree, and the Bear's head is hanging from the tree to the right of the shed.
Do I need to say anything about the importance of a powerful light when clearing a backyard or wooded area?

Best regards,
black bear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
MORE LIGHTS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT




As a continuation of the first post and for whatever value it has, I am going to do some more shoot outs of a mix of popular Luxeon lights and incandescent ones.

The first order of things is to change the target area, to make it a little more interesting to my viewers.
Consequently I replaced the tool shed target with a deer and bear mount.
The deer head mounted on the tree is exactly 26 yards from my second story window from where the lights are shinning.
The bear head in the fence is only six more feet further away from the tree.

In the summer I have plenty of bushy cover in the area, but this time I had to be creative and cut and nailed to the tree and fence, some branches from a pine tree, not to hide the animals from view, just to provide a natural blending effect, like they were coming from a natural habitat.

The camera was placed twelve foot away from the tree (and eighteen feet from the bear) in a solid tripod, and the night camera mode used (this mode shows in pictures the same light values that I am seeing with my own eyes).

The close proximity of the camera is for the viewer to see the target with clarity; if I were to place the camera 26 yards away the target will be awfully small.

Here it is the target area and how it looks in daylight.



And here are the contenders, but before I describe them, let me voice my opinion that some manufacturers of Luxeon lights label the output in lumens in quite a wild way.




From left to right: # 1 Fenix L1P at about 40 lumens, # 2 Nuwaii Q III at 75 lumens (yes, sure!) # 3 Surefire L-4 Digital Lumamax at 65 lumens (this is a Luxeon V which is quite a flood light but with little throw).

# 4 Streamlight Task-Light 2 L (two Lithium 3 volts batteries, high and low output,
Cost is about $77.00) This is billed at a High Flux Luxeon III. With 75 lumens, which I think is about right.

# 5 is the Streamlight Pro Polymer 4 AA with a Luxeon I, billed as 40 lumens (3,500 candlepower according to the advertising) which I think is quite wrong, as it appears to me to have about 70 lumens or more, this light has a bigger and deeper reflector than the others lights and the beam is concentrated more than the others. This is a great light for the price of about $40.00

# 6, this is a PR T Luxeon III head done for me by master modder McGizmo, it is set on a Surefire E2e body and I am using two rechargeable 123’s with a voltage of 4.2 volts in it.
This light is my best Luxeon III light and up to two years ago it was pretty HOT STUFF, today the cree LED’s are approaching it in intensity, although it has not been overpower by any other Luxeon, yet.
My friends told me I have two of the Integrated Sphere Spectotometers just above my nose, those spheres are telling me that this light makes 120 to 130 “real” lumens.

# 7, this is A Surefire Centurion II in black with the P-60 lamp (65 lumens) this represents all the others Surefires lights that use this lamp, G-2, 6P. Z-2. etc.

# 8, this is another Surefire Centurion II, but in Hard anodized, it wears the HOLA lamp. The P-61 with the output of 120 lumens for 20 minutes.

# 9 this is a Surefire Centurion III (3 cells) this is usually sold with the P-90 lamp that makes 105 lumens for one hour, but in this case is set up with the P-91 lamp for 200 lumens for 20 minutes, as you will see in the picture later, the floodlight effect is great at 26 yards. All those P’s lamps start to lose range at about 45 to 50 yards, this is because the reflectors are fabricated to produce a good flood so police officers can clear houses with them.
I took this particular light out of my Remington 742 rifle, where it sits in the special quick detach mount in a Picattiny rail.

# 10, this is the BEAR CUB, this light weights 13 oz and measures 9 inches long, it works with two Lithium Ion computer batteries, and produces 220 plus lumens for 90 minutes. Thanks to the big and deep 2 inch mirror-like reflector, this light concentrates the beam like a laser and has a throw of 120 to 150 yards.
So the 26 yards distance is like child play for the Bear Cub and the light is so intense at the target that they had to close their eyes!

# 11, (last on the left lying in horizontal position next to the Bear Cub) this light is a KL-1 head Luxeon I of three years ago, it is set up in a Surefire Outdoorsman body and the lumens output is no more than 20, consequently I decided to strike it out from the competition, there is no room in my stable for weaklings and I will present it to my nephew on his birthday quite soon.

And now let’s go to the pictures:

Fenix L1P (40 lumens) Luxeon I



Nuwaii Q III (advertised at 75 lumens in a website, which I don’t believe) Luxeon III.




Surefire L-4 Digital Lumamax (65 lumens) this is very flood light and the lumens spread in a very wide area, so it cannot be expected to have a good throw at 26 yards. (Luxeon V ~which are 4 of the one watt together)




Streamlight Task Light 2 L about 75 lumens on high, works on two 123’s batteries and has two levels of illumination. High Flux Luxeon III. About $77.00



Streamlight Poly Pro 4 AA Luxeon. This light has a deep and bigger reflector, the Luxeon is I, according to the manufacturer, is listed at 40 lumens, but to my eyes is doing about 75 lumens.
For the price of $40.00 this is a great light, and very battery friendly as it uses regulars AA.
I feed this light, rechargeable Nimhs AA of high current (Powerex 2700 mah) that hovers around 1.4 volts for weeks consequently it costs me nothing to operate it.





Mc Gizmo PR T head on Surefire body, Luxeon III, TWOJ bin,
My best Luxeon light putting out 120 to 130 lumens. This is a collector’s item and was state of the art, less than two years ago.
I have found nothing new that can approach its power, except the new cree 7090 that is getting close.



Surefire Centurion II in black with the P-60 lamp (65 lumens for one hour)





Surefire Centurion II in Hard anodized with the P-61 lamp (120 lumens for 20 minutes)



Surefire Centurion III in hard anodized, with the P-91 lamp (200 lumens for 20 minutes) as you can see it is a great flood at 26 yards.





BEAR CUB running for 90 minutes on two computer Lithium Ion batteries, driving a Xenon Magnum Star bulb for 5 cells pretty hard at 8.4 volts at a conservative 220 lumens (which make it a very white light) with a reach of 120 to 150 yards, even surpassing the Ultra Stinger.



Best regards
Black bear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Surefire E 2 e Series

The little MN03 lamp (60 lumens) in the E2e, is a big performer, I myself like this little light a lot, and I think it qualifies as a tactical light to be used at close to medium range.

Here is a picture of a few of the versions of the E2e.





And here is the beam shot at the same distance than the others above (26 yards) and the camera placed at the same distance (12 feet to the Deer head and 18 to the Bear head).





Kind regards
Black bear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
PELICAN M-6 and TAC-STAR T-6
Tactical lights


About three years ago Pelican come out with his first tactical light in the M-6 incandescent, as others tactical lights it used two of the Lithium 123 batteries, the switch is in the tail cap and works like the Surefire 6P with lock and intermittent functions.
The light has some flats in the head that act as anti-roll, but not as well as the Surefire 6P.

The reflector is heavily orange peel and the pattern is nice and without artifacts. One thing in the design I like very much, in the tail cap instead of a spring bearing on the battery, is a plunger finished in gold plating, sure a very elegant way to produce the necessary contact.

The TAC STAR T-6 come into the market after the Pelican have already sold several thousands of lights and is in all effects a copy, same internals and same reflector and the only variation is the treatment of the outside body.
The T-6’s workmanship is not as good as the Pelican, threads in the tail cap are rough and the edges are not well finished, but the beam intensity and pattern are the same.

Two and a half years ago the Pelican cost me $60.00 it came with a very good holster in Cordura nylon.
The Tac-Star that I bought a year ago cost me $30.00 and came without a holster.
I use to have another T-6 that had a smooth reflector and the focus was adjustable, this was an early version that was changed not to infringe in the adjustable focus patent of another flashlight company.

The Pelican had a claim of 80 lumens in the outside of the box and 72 lumens in the instructions, the T-6 had no lumens claim in the paper work.

Here is a picture of the two lights.




And here is a picture of the beam shot..



Here is the beam shot of the Surefire Centurion II with the P-60 lamp (65 lumens) as a way of comparison between the lights.
As many of you know, the P-60 lamp is the one use in the G-2, Z-2, 6P, etc. so the comparison is valid for all of these lights.




Many of these lights are still in use daily by police officers and civilians alike, I am sure some of the readers have one in their belt or night stand.

Kind regards
Black bear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
767 Posts
Thanks for joining us here Black bear

For anyone that does camping, has a big yard or just want a ridiculously bright light, the Borealis is the way to go. There is nothing like a custom light. Lumens are like ammo....you can never have to much
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,143 Posts
BB84 -



welcome and thanks!~


you do a far greater job than my lowly lumen comparo! :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,143 Posts
ok - this whole light thing is very addicting

as it is - i modded my nightstand C2 and shotgun forend into 3 cell - 9 volt lights with the C2 running the 105 lumen and the shotgun the 200 lumen bulbs

i carry a T3 in my vehicle and an X5 in my laptop bag

i soo just almost ordered a Bear Cub with all the trimmings


i would love to have a Borealis - however i believe i might get into trouble with it


any light that can start a fire would have to be kept in the gun safe - i can see my wifey or little mccrackin setting one of the dogs or cat on fire! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi guys,
Thanks for the welcome, I'll try not to be too boring.

Here is another little beam-shot

CREE 7090 XR-E LAMP

JET-I (AA) MK IIX FLASHLIGHT


I had the opportunity to test briefly this flashlight a few days ago; since I just got to handle it for a few hours I will not call it a review, but just a little trial.

The light was actually passing by, my friend Luis from Spain had ordered from me a Borealis 1050 lumens and a Bear Cub 220 lumens flashlights, he also wanted one of Emilions’ workbench JET-BEAM I MK IIX little lights that have multiple functions and are billed with a 100 lumens maximum power in the 1 AA version and with the extended tube for two AA batteries at 150 lumens.
So I had one ordered from Emilions and it arrived quite quickly, from Hong Kong to New York in just five days!

Physically, it is the size of my Fenix L1P light, (about 40 lumens) and it is very similar in shape and weight.
For those not familiar with these lights I have here a picture of them side by side.



By adding the extension for another AA, it is claimed that the maximum output is 150 lumens. Now that is a serious lumens output that we are taking about, so my main interest was to see if really the little light was going to reach that high.
Unfortunately I didn’t have available any other comparable light, the closest that I had seem was my friend Fenix L2D that claims 135 lumens, but he was out of state, so the light was unavailable to me.

I have in my stable of lights, one PR T head (Pelican Reflector Turbo) that McGizmo made for me with a TWOJ Lumileds Luxeon III, which is a real screamer, going into the 130 lumens when pushed hard by two of the rechargeable 123’s at 3.7 volts each.
This head is in an E2e body and is my favorite of the Luxeons lights I own.

The comparison to the little reflector of the Jet Beam will be unfair, as the Pelican reflector is much bigger in diameter and deeper, concentrating the light in a much tighter and intense beam.
The smaller reflector of the Jet Beam will tend to disperse the light beam in a more open pattern which will compromise the throw.

But here is a picture of the two lights side by side, so you can see how they look like, and how the Jet Beam is with the added 1 battery extension tube.



And here is a picture of the beam shot against the ceiling at a distance of 6 feet, the one on left is the Jet Beam I MK IIX



And after that, I took pictures of the beams shots at my customary 26 yards against the Deer and Bear heads.
If the picture of the beam shot of the Jet Beam doesn’t look too impressive for the 150 lumens figure, keep in mind the terrible advantage in concentration of light that the Pelican reflector provides for my PR T 130 lumens light.

Beam shot with the Jet Beam 150 lumens (2 batteries, maximum power)



And here the beam shot with the McGizmo PR T head (130 lumens)



I can’t close this account without telling my readers of the many features of the little Jet Beam light,
On the exterior the light is finished in hard anodized type III, the lens is Sapphire crystal and it comes with a set of extra switch covers, lanyard and a nice belt holster.

The circuit is 0.7V to 4.2V, after you click it on (Medium Brightness) soft touching the rubber switch will provide low brightness, maximum brightness and strobe, and one more touch will put the light in standby.

Waiting two seconds and clicking the light again will access the advanced mode with 10 levels of output, and five special functions including strobe SOS at 100 % and SOS at 5 % and others.

This seems to me, is the light to end all of the key chain lights and then some. As soon as my checkbook is recuperated from the ravages of uncle Sam, I am going to order one for myself.

I still think that for clearing a warehouse or a big yard, you need the longer distance reach of a good (in the 200 lumens bracket) incandescent light. When the factories start using the Cree 7090 with bigger reflectors, we will see the results, but I myself believe that the lack of the red spectrum in the Luxeons will always make them short distance lights and reduce the definition on the target; just look at the pictures that I have presented until now and see the performance of Luxeons even with the big reflectors of the Streamlight 4AA and the Task Light.

Kind regards
Black bear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
THE SUREFIRE M-6, 500 LUMENS TACTICAL LIGHT

Hi guys,
Here is another of my tactical lights. This beauty is light, relatively small and VERY powerful, and it comes with two lamps; 250 lumens for one hour and 500 lumens for 20 minutes.
THE GOOD NEWS:
In reality, when using fresh 123’s batteries of Surefire brand this light puts out 650 lumens for the first 6 minutes, this is really an outstanding performance as at 650 lumens the light is very white.
After that, the small 123’s start feeling the problem of coping with the high amperage lamp and settle to the 500 lumens output for a little more time, but you can see in the beam how the sag on the little batteries affects the output.

I have had three of the M-6’s and I am very familiar with them, they are very sensitive to what batteries they like, performing quite well with the Surefire brand, but dropping down and with reduced run time with the Battery Station brand, (at least in my experience).

THE NOT SO GOOD NEWS:
Sometimes in a warm summer night when I use the light, I can expect it to shut down after about 11 to 12 minutes of running due to the overheat protection of the batteries.
Yes the batteries will shut down the juice when very hot to avoid reaching the melting point, it is very disconcerting to have the light going full blast and all of a sudden you find yourself in complete dark.
It will no happen often but it had happened to me three times last summer (I am an above average user of powerful lights).

The light that I use for the beam shot is not my own but one that a local customer of mine received in the mail the day I was delivering to him a Borealis 1050 lumens flashlight.

This great guy will start a conversation with, hi, I am Effie and I am a flashaholic, the day I visited him we spend hours talking and looking at his lights.
The batteries in the Surefire box, were fresh, I am sure because I deflowered the tough plastic wrapping with my trusty Ken Onion’s knife.
The guy have a one room house with garage in his big back yard, (for his teenage son’s to have his privacy) and that is what we used as a target, it been 27 yards away from the end of the porch where we shoot the beams of the lights and placed the tripod and camera.

As we needed another light to test it against, we used the Borealis 1050 lumens light, this being a top of the line model with the Quick Detach Swivel and the black hard anodized bezel with the glow dots.
Of course the Borealis been a bigger light made in the 3 D format and weighting at 28 oz. and with 12 ½ inches in length, overpower physically and in lumens output the M-6, but we didn’t have anything closer to the 650 lumens of the HOLA lamp of the M-6.
And here are the beam shots

SUREFIRE M-6 HOLA lamp (650 lumens on fresh batteries, 20 minutes run time)





BOREALIS 1050 LUMENS RECHARGEABLE (50 minutes run time)



And here the lights side by side before the shoot out.






THE ONLY REAL PROBLEM:
It is the cost of the batteries, Surefires are close to a couple dollars now with shipping, it hurts my pocket to pay that much when the light uses six of them every twenty minutes and I don’t use the light as much as when the batteries where going for a dollar each.
For the law enforcement sector, when the Agency pays for the batteries, it is not problem, but for us simple civilians like me, even that I don’t have a mortgage anymore, I have a kid with a foot in College and I have to watch out my wallet, paying $36.00 per hour to run a powerful light it is not longer fun.

It is the top of the line of the portable Surefires and at $400 it is well worth the money due to the great and precise machining and finish and the good design specially made for tactical situations.

Cheers,
Black Bear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
hugh g. rection said:
cool flashlights black bear.how about a switch that can decrease output by 50% and again by75% to prolong runtime?a set of rings to mount it on a rail would be nice as well.
Thank you for the idea, if I see enough interest I will eventually cook something like that.

Black Bear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
THE ASP TAC LITE

This is another very popular tactical light in the law enforcement circles, it is five inches long and one inch in diameter. As with the other tactical lights, it works for about an hour on two of the 123’s disposable batteries.



This is the bulb of the ASP light, with a shock absorbing material wrapped around the base



The ASP line of batons is very famous for quality and craftsmanship; this light can be coupled to an ASP baton if you so desire.

Quality foam insulates the middle of the light and is a very welcome addition in the winter months when all metal lights are too cold to handle.
The Company states 7,000 candlepower for this light
. Candlepower in this light are high because the beam is quite concentrated. The ASP TAC LITE is famous for having a far-throwing beam.
The reason for it is the smooth-mirror polished reflector and the shape of the filament of the bulb, which forms an arc, as it is quite short, the light is emitted from a smaller filament than those of others lights.

A light that reaches far is of dubious utility in the tactical field for clearing houses and the like, when its long throw hinders the flood capabilities of the instrument.
Although the light features an internal capability to make it throw more flood, it is internal and is based on repositioning the bulb in the reflector, which introduces a series of artifacts into the beam.
Surefire’s with P-60 or P-61 lamps are well established as the ones that everybody likes as far as beam throw and amount of side spill; after all, most gun fights in low light situations happen inside of a few yards, and a tight beam is more of a liability than of an asset.

However I see this light as a good contender to install it in an AR type rifle, where illumination at longer distances is needed and desired.

The tail-cap houses a nice electronic switch that is quite responsive to the touch of your thumb, the switch button is recessed and the light can be used on candle mode if the operator wishes to do so.
However none of the additional features so desirable in a tactical light are present here. There is no anti-roll bezel to stop the light from rolling of a table or inclined surface, there is no fluted cap so light can escape if the flashlight is set on a table head down, and no grommet or stop to position the light in the Rogers-Surefire position.

As always the bear is set up at 18 feet from the camera and the deer at 12 feet and the light of the ASP Tac Lite is coming from the second story window from 26 yards away.

For comparison here is the beam shot of the Surefire G-2 with the 65 lumens (P-60) lamp



And here is the beam shot of the ASP TAC LITE, notice how the concentrate light is brighter at the target than the G-2



Kind regards
Black Bear





 

·
Annihilator
Joined
·
4,782 Posts
^^^

That ASP light is a DAMN good idea!

Still loving my Borealis light to death. Even tempted to get another one to keep in the car cuz I use it so damn much. I recommend that EVERYONE have at least one Borealis 1050... I honestly can't use any other flashlight anymore... Unless its for reading, cuz you can't really read with the borealis... lol

Thanks again for making such a great product! :D
 

·
Plays Counter Strike and knows everything about gu
Joined
·
1,099 Posts
Black Bear,
I've been looking at the Surefire Aviator recently. I need something with a red low light (LED) and something a bit brighter all in one.
Are there any competitors to the Aviator or am I limited in my selection?
 
1 - 20 of 100 Posts
Top