Janq· Premium Member
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is old school stuff but folks may recognize the gem of a find this is....
A review via Amazon.com...
A review via Amazon.com...
Additional information; http://www.gutterfighting.org/Main.htmlIt's not about self-defense--it's a combat manual, July 7, 2005
Reviewer: Alan D. Cranford (Carson City, NV USA) - See all my reviews
"Kill or Get Killed" is not about self-defense. Rex Applegate wrote this book for offensive combat. In his chapter on handguns, Applegate wrote that there was no defending with the handgun-he trained his students to ATTACK first. The chapters on unarmed and improvised weapon fighting were about asymmetrical combat-your enemy might have a knife, and you had a chair. The sections on riot control may seem to have little bearing on personal defense; Applegate wrote "Riot Control Material and Techniques" during the turbulent 1960's.
"Kill or Get Killed" is history. It was cutting-edge stuff in 1943, and will still work today. I refer to "expert systems" and "idiot systems" for personal combat-the former will be very effective, but you need years of training (synthetic experience) under the guidance of a competent instructor and with full school facilities. "Idiot systems" have limited effectiveness, but within 40 hours or so of drilling with another student you will be an effective combatant. "Kill or Get Killed" is what I call an "idiot system" and it follows the KISS principle. If you think you can read a comic book and become a super ninja commando in less than fifteen minutes, reality will soon prove the error of your ways. On the other hand, if you read "Kill or Get Killed," then use it to produce a training program, then actually do the drills involved, within a few weeks of hard work you'll be more dangerous to an attacker than your attacker is to you. There are better methods of close quarter shooting with pistol and long gun-Rex Applegate produced a video on modern point shooting. A word about point shooting versus using the sights-you need to do both to be a competent shooter. For handgun shooting, if you lack the time and other resources to do it right, the "Kill or Get Killed" technique will work. The OSS sometimes had only an hour or two of firearms training for its agents before they were dropped behind enemy lines with a .32 automatic pistol for moral support. Just keep in mind that your effective range will be about ten feet-Applegate claims fifty feet for the handgun, but that is for someone who has first been trained in the traditional "target pistol" course to 50 yards, then put through the entire OSS shooting school. I corresponded with the late Colonel Applegate to clear up a few points about his pistol techniques, and I trained some of the Camp Doha Security Force officers in the point shooting techniques in addition to the standard FM 23-35 pistol course during five years on the Camp Doha security force. These shooters had been trained, but had trouble qualifying-and also were deficient in gun fighting skills. One of the firing tables took place at 7 meters-the officer was to draw his 9mm, rack the slide, and put 5 shots in the silhouette target in under 12 seconds. Most of the officers didn't manage to get their M9 pistol out and fire one shot (they would often accidentally engage the safety while racking the slide). After about 30 minutes of dry fire practice and "presentation drills" these security officers were able to draw from their M12 duty holsters and hit the target in about three seconds, finishing their five shots in under seven-still slow, but better. When starting with pistol in a "low ready" (pioneered by Sykes and Fairbairn and passed on to Applegate) they were able to respond and put two shots into the target almost immediately. The ITT training officer on the range was impressed, to say the least.
The techniques in "Kill or Get Killed" work. Some are not court-proof today. You have to drill to standard, and keep drilling. There are better products out there, but "Kill or Get Killed" will work okay. Point shooting is coming back as part of a competent handgunner's skill set. The hand-to-hand combat techniques work so long as you get in the best possible physical condition and maintain that, and you practice, practice, practice, and you act first when confronted with force. I have used "Kill or Get Killed" as a close combat training manual since 1973, a couple of years before enlisting in the US Marines.
One inadvertent by-product is that when I watch war movies, I can tell the difference between vintage techniques and modern-the modern techniques were used in movies such as "Saving Private Ryan." Be warned-realistic and intensive training may make willing suspension of disbelief difficult!