[jamz]

Circa 1989.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Conclusion:

too tired to type it now, maybe in am.

 

[fatcat]

Basicly it says use a .45 you fire one round, use a 9mm fire many rounds....

 

[Janq]

Basicly it says use a .45 you fire one round, use a 9mm fire many rounds....

I have a cousin who had been shot 5 times in the body with a 9mm, all at once, upon being ambushed on the streets by rivals. Even all shot up he was able to run away on foot and get himself to safety _and dial 911 before passing out.
He's not unfamiliar to guns or shooting people but this was his first time being shot (He'd since been shot once more though just a flesh wound).
You know what he said to us in the hospital room upon coming to after surgery?
He said he was glad they didn't shoot him with a .45.

9MM is great if you're Annie Oakley or Ernie Langdon.
Otherwise hit hard with the heaviest & biggest thing you can put your hands around, so say many including my cousin who is built like and used to be the Deebo of his 'hood before he 'retired'.

- Janq

 

[Adler]

Janq

Was he shot with JHP ammo. I notice alot of "gangsters" whos cars I worked on lways had FMJ ammo in their guns mainly cause they tend to be idiots.

I have seen some wound ballistics with the newer Generation of 9mm JHP ammo and it realy has boosted the lethality of 9mm.
That FBI analysis was done in the 80's when JHP ammo was unreliable at best and did not expand well.

 

[Jeremy]

The newer 9mm JHP's perform pretty well opening and doing enough damage to get the job done.

If your the shooter use JHP's if your the vic pray form FMJ's

 

[jamz]

That FBI analysis was done in the 80's when JHP ammo was unreliable at best and did not expand well.

This is very true and it is the one caveat that I would mention- in hte last 4-5 years, JHP technology has come a long long way. I'd like to see an updated report that reflects the modern 9mm loading.

Basically it states that all stopping the threat comes from the damage comes from the permanent wound cavity, which has to penetrate far enough to reach major organs/spine. The bigger the projectile, the more damage, (well duh!) the quicker to stop the threat. That said, modern 9mm rounds can get pretty big nowadays, when before they could not.

 

[Adler]

That and 9mm is a better penetrator than 45acp. 45acp from a Tommy Gun wouldnt always make it through a car door in the 1920's shootouts. Thats why the smart ones used BARs.


I am a fan of the new Speer JHP 9mm ammo. They even have an expanding FMj round now. How cool is that???

 

[Janq]

Janq

Was he shot with JHP ammo. I notice alot of "gangsters" whos cars I worked on lways had FMJ ammo in their guns mainly cause they tend to be idiots.

I have seen some wound ballistics with the newer Generation of 9mm JHP ammo and it realy has boosted the lethality of 9mm.
That FBI analysis was done in the 80's when JHP ammo was unreliable at best and did not expand well.

He was shot with all FMJ but one round.
On the street FMJ runs twice what it does in stores, it's really expensive, and folks generally don't care enough to give the very best.
Ball ammo is easy and cheap to come by, it's pretty much economics and availability for the black market buyer.

BTW this was in '89 during the bad old day at height of the DC crime wave when everybody and their momma was shot, caught in a shoot out or had family that was.

- Janq

 

[Janq]

That and 9mm is a better penetrator than 45acp. 45acp from a Tommy Gun wouldnt always make it through a car door in the 1920's shootouts. Thats why the smart ones used BARs.

I am a fan of the new Speer JHP 9mm ammo. They even have an expanding FMj round now. How cool is that???

I've always heard that same statement about .45 and the '20's but struggle to believe it as autosheet metal back then was thin as hell and they had little in the way of internal structure if any beyond plate glass windows (pre-safety glass).
Unfortunately I don't know any people IRL who would have been alive in those times that might have done dirt or been a cop to know one way or the other. I gotta figure though that ammo production back then was crappier than today with lower resulting pressures. Or something. :shrug:
Because today a .45 slug will go right through a car door no problem.

Anyway if I had a 9MM I'd go with Speer 'Gold Dot' as I keep hearing good stuff about them or more likely Corbon DPX, which I keep in my own defense mags...along with Winchester 230 Gr. JHP 'Personal Protection'.

- Janq

 

[Adler]

Actually the metal back then was better. Thinner...not really but it just seems to have much more strength. I have been helping my dad work on his 32 Ford V8 coupe and noticed that it was made of some really great shit compared to the cars I have owned from the 60's-70's, and much better than teh crappy tin they throw on cars today.

45acp is still loaded to relatively low pressures as it was back then...and it was all FMJ or LRN out of a long barrel. Even if loaded weaker the longer barrel of a Thompson would make up for that.