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Discussion Starter #1
Someone explain to me, how someone that is bi-polar and on Lithium can get a CCW and has the ability to own a handgun??

But they get a DUI and they can no longer have their CCW permit? Im not saying they shouldnt get it taken away for it, but if they are bi-polar its ok??
 

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Probably due to the fact tht a DUI is a criminal offense and on record as such. Being Bi-Polar and medicated is not illegal and not tracked as a criminal offense, so probably not an easy thing for the governing agency handing out CCW's or handgun licenses to track.

Is this in reference to something specific?

My answer is just a pure guess. But I can't wait for the day the gubment tracks my health mental or otherwise and uses it against me in any way shape or form <sez sarcastically>.
 

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thats EXACTLY the kind of thing that should come up with a background check. if he is medicated, it should be a documented medical illness. however, there are varying degrees of the bi-polar disorder and he probably (hopefully) got signed off on by a psychiatrist and hopefully a medical doctor and a judge.

but orca is right about the DUI. If there where injuries, or in some states, if its a second dui, the charge will be a felony and you do not pass go. and you loose your right to carry a firearm.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Oh - I fully agree with someone losing their right to carry a gun if someone gets a DUI, and I also think its kinda odd that somebody that is medicated in such a way can get one to begin with.

I was just suprised when someone in Nasioc OT made a thread about being on lithium for being bi-polar and just got a DUI and was upset that he lost his CCW permit
 

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Nose Nuggets said:
If there where injuries, or in some states, if its a second dui, the charge will be a felony and you do not pass go. and you loose your right to carry a firearm.

And/or own anymore firearms. And/or houses.
 

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Blindeye_03 said:
Oh - I fully agree with someone losing their right to carry a gun if someone gets a DUI, and I also think its kinda odd that somebody that is medicated in such a way can get one to begin with.

I was just suprised when someone in Nasioc OT made a thread about being on lithium for being bi-polar and just got a DUI and was upset that he lost his CCW permit
Who was it?
 

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Blindeye_03 said:
Oh - I fully agree with someone losing their right to carry a gun if someone gets a DUI, and I also think its kinda odd that somebody that is medicated in such a way can get one to begin with.

I was just suprised when someone in Nasioc OT made a thread about being on lithium for being bi-polar and just got a DUI and was upset that he lost his CCW permit
Next time post a link the what your referencing. I had no idea this was in reference to something posted elsewhere.
 

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Nose Nuggets said:
i think felons can own property.

I have heard different. Maybe it's that they can't get a loan err sumthin. Or I heard it wrong.

I've been known to 'tard it up once in a while.
 

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It's that felons can't vote, or so I've been told by someone who should know. I'm not one so consequently I am relying on hearsay for my info.
 

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can't own firearms, can't vote, can own property if they have anything left that wasn't repoed if it was used in the commission of an offense
 

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Most every state will take your concealed carry lic. if you get hit with a DUI or DWI.
You learn this during your CCL class and/or upon reading ones own state laws toward as much...which everyone and anyone even thinking to carry on the streets should do and be directly familiar with.

As to the question of mental stability and the prescribed lithium along with diagnosed mental instability some states do check for this and eliminate persons on said basis. After the Cho Seung-Hui/VA tech shooting more folks are seriously reviewing this toward gun laws in general be it CCL or simply being allowed ot purchase a weapon for home protection or sporting use.

Some folk feel mental health status should not be considered and that investigating ones medical history is an invasion of privacy, goes against doctor patient privledge, and smacks of Big Brother.
Others though feel it's completely reasonable if not even common sensical.

As an example toward as much MA state limitations/eliminators toward a 'License To Carry' include the following as per the MA General Laws;

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT

TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER

CHAPTER 140. LICENSES

EMPLOYMENT AGENCIES

SALE OF FIREARMS

Chapter 140: Section 131. Licenses to carry firearms; Class A and B; conditions and restrictions

Section 131. All licenses to carry firearms shall be designated Class A or Class B, and the issuance and possession of any such license shall be subject to the following conditions and restrictions:

...

(i) has, in any state or federal jurisdiction, been convicted or adjudicated a youthful offender or delinquent child for the commission of (a) a felony; (b) a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for more than two years; (c) a violent crime as defined in section 121; (d) a violation of any law regulating the use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental, receipt or transportation of weapons or ammunition for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed; or (e) a violation of any law regulating the use, possession or sale of controlled substances as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C;

(ii) has been confined to any hospital or institution for mental illness, unless the applicant submits with his application an affidavit of a registered physician attesting that such physician is familiar with the applicant’s mental illness and that in such physician’s opinion the applicant is not disabled by such an illness in a manner that should prevent such applicant from possessing a firearm;

(iii) is or has been under treatment for or confinement for drug addiction or habitual drunkenness, unless such applicant is deemed to be cured of such condition by a licensed physician, and such applicant may make application for such license after the expiration of five years from the date of such confinement or treatment and upon presentment of an affidavit issued by such physician stating that such physician knows the applicant’s history of treatment and that in such physician’s opinion the applicant is deemed cured;

(iv) is at the time of the application less than 21 years of age;

(v) is an alien;

(vi) is currently subject to: (A) an order for suspension or surrender issued pursuant to section 3B or 3C of chapter 209A or a similar order issued by another jurisdiction; or (B) a permanent or temporary protection order issued pursuant to chapter 209A or a similar order issued by another jurisdiction; or

(vii) is currently the subject of an outstanding arrest warrant in any state or federal jurisdiction.

Source - http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131.htm
As well take note that MA amongst other states like MD will not only look for information within the state but they will do a _national_ search of ones documented history and they also have the power to look into court sealed documents and cases. MA in specific will also look into records dating back to ones youth e.g. before you turned 18. I believe MD is the same IIRC.
MA and MD are two of the absolute toughest states in the union to get a license to carry concealed. Md goes even further requiring one to have a documented incident by police of having been assaulted and victimized in order to be even considered. Yes, you have to suffer and survive a beat down first and even that has to be one that might appear to be repeatable and not just a random crime incident. The government looking out for you, me, and all. :\

But anyway I personally am split on this subject.
I think it should be reviewed and taken into consideration on a case by case basis. That means extra work for the state and the state has time limits in which they can decided these things so well you know what's gonna most likely happen there. 'DENIED'

For folks who don't/didn't know it works very much to your personal long term advantage and retention of constitutional rights to not drink and drive, and get caught. To not abuse drugs and operate machinery, and get caught. To not commit any crimes not even thumping some guy for talking smack to you in the club/bar, and get caught. Not smacking your neighbor in the teef for 'borrowing' your tools without asking, and get caught. Not getting upset with some girl or your wife or a family member and thumping them, and get busted. Not having a restraining order placed against you for any reason by anyone including your employer too. Not being diagnosed by a doctor for acute mental health issues of any sort and requesting/requiring any sort of psychoactive mental stability/personality adjusting medication. Not being associated to a mental health compulsion organization for purposes of life support (e.g. AA, NA, SA, etc.). Not being found to have committed a felony of any sort which includes poaching of wildlife or hunting without authorization on federal lands or hunting illegally such as at night or with aid of an illumination device (e.g. 'Jacklighting' deer/turkey) or even leaving the scene of a crime (e.g. shooting a guy in self defense and making the concious decision to leave him in the alley and become invisible rather than call the po-po from a safe distance and await their arrival to 'tun yourself in').

All of the above and more were drilled and reviewed in gross detail in every carry of a firearm class I've taken to date;

* NRA 'First Steps' (VA CCL approved as was taught by VA, DC and MD police detectives and a retired FBI weapons instructor as lead course instructor)

* S&W 'License To Carry Concealed' (MA LTC approved as taught by a retired police detective)

* MA 'Hunter Education' (as taught by the MA Environmental Police Office aka state 'game wardens' and is MA LTC applicable & approved)

And this was covered in detail _again_ during the LEO oriented 'Tactics & Techniques' course I took at S&W two weeks ago. Even as that course was specific to law enforcement officers (clothed, unclothed, and there were a pair of parole officers and a corrections officer in class too) it was again reviewed in detail from both the perspective of the individual citizen and from the focus of being a police and dealing with a 'citizen' during/upon the commission of a crime by said person, who just might be him/herself carrying and not of sound body and/or mind. The instructor of that class was Bill Porter who is MI state police retired and is now lead weapons instructor at S&W and also works for the U.S. State Dept. as an instructor. He in specific was adamant about one needing to keep their nose clean figuratively and literally or else well you may suffer consequences which might include long term loss of ones constitutional rights.

Folks gotta take this stuff seriously, very seriously.
For example when you got to most ranges I've ever been to just to rent a lane and/or firearm the first thing they have you do is fill out a form indicating your legal situation and mental health. They ask if you have been denied the right to own or posses a firearm and if you're a felon et. al. Same goes toward purchasing a firearm. Same goes as well toward securing a job for that matter in many industries and concentrations.

Again be careful and mindful of your actions as the repercussions can be deep and wide.
As to mental health and ones individual status that is a two sided knife and it cuts both ways. Again be mindful if you care at all about your constitutional right to handle, own or possess muchless carry firearms concealed.

State and Federal firearms rights are serious business.

- Janq has said this before, at OT
 

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Regarding CCW by crazies, I say innocent until proven guilty. In other words, carry away, unless you break the law. A person can be bipolar and medicated or not, and it shouldn't affect their ability to defend themselves if need be. If one is sufficiently crazy enough to require involuntary hospitalization, then your judgment is probably not good enough to warrant carrying, and thus the usual denial, but if one behaves in the normal civilized way, even while being bipolar, the I say carry away.

Of course, I say this from personal experience, having done many years of social work with elder, homeless, and severely mentally ill populations. Personally I've also long since been diagnosed with adult ADD, and I like to take medications that help me with focus and organization. People with ADD are supposed to have poor impulse control, which I tend to, though usually in terms if wanting to buy something really cool I see, but I could easily see that "Poor Impulse Control" criteria being an automatic denial for CCW license by any anti-gun authority.
 

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jamz said:
Regarding CCW by crazies, I say innocent until proven guilty. In other words, carry away, unless you break the law. A person can be bipolar and medicated or not, and it shouldn't affect their ability to defend themselves if need be. If one is sufficiently crazy enough to require involuntary hospitalization, then your judgment is probably not good enough to warrant carrying, and thus the usual denial, but if one behaves in the normal civilized way, even while being bipolar, the I say carry away.

Of course, I say this from personal experience, having done many years of social work with elder, homeless, and severely mentally ill populations. Personally I've also long since been diagnosed with adult ADD, and I like to take medications that help me with focus and organization. People with ADD are supposed to have poor impulse control, which I tend to, though usually in terms if wanting to buy something really cool I see, but I could easily see that "Poor Impulse Control" criteria being an automatic denial for CCW license by any anti-gun authority.
no but it can seriously effect ones ability to make rational decisions. By being a medicated sufferer of a mental illness you have been proven guilty. Having an attention disorder, or even mild bi-polar disorder is not even scratching the surface.




Advanced delusionary schizophrenia with involuntary narcissistic rage.
 

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I personally wouldn't compare ADD to one who is Bi-Polar, which itself is just a nice easy trendy way of indicating one is a manic depressive and is quite a serious mental illness even for one who is medicated.

My last employer was 'bipolar' or atleast that's what she would gleefully tell anyone whether you asked/inquired/cared or not. FWIW that woman was bat shit crazy and I wouldn't turn my back to her with an El Marko in her hand nevermind a pistola being anywhere within her reach.
She's say she was under medication but I and other former employees don't think it was anything but Flintstone chewables.

A person with ADD doesn't concern me and wouldn't unless that specific individual as Jamz indicated had shown some actual cause for concern in their documented actions. On the other hand a person diagnosed as manic depressive, that individual if I were a 'reviewer' would oppositely have to prove and establish them self to me as being capable as opposed to incapable.
The difference lies in the documented doctor diagnosis.

- Janq
 

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Discussion Starter #20
jamz said:
Regarding CCW by crazies, I say innocent until proven guilty. In other words, carry away, unless you break the law. A person can be bipolar and medicated or not, and it shouldn't affect their ability to defend themselves if need be. If one is sufficiently crazy enough to require involuntary hospitalization, then your judgment is probably not good enough to warrant carrying, and thus the usual denial, but if one behaves in the normal civilized way, even while being bipolar, the I say carry away.

Of course, I say this from personal experience, having done many years of social work with elder, homeless, and severely mentally ill populations. Personally I've also long since been diagnosed with adult ADD, and I like to take medications that help me with focus and organization. People with ADD are supposed to have poor impulse control, which I tend to, though usually in terms if wanting to buy something really cool I see, but I could easily see that "Poor Impulse Control" criteria being an automatic denial for CCW license by any anti-gun authority.
I remember reading over my application / background check when I got my AR-15 last weekend and there was one question asking if you were "mentally defective" - so I assume they ask that when you apply for a CCW?

But I guess you can be bipolar on meds and be ok - but also be bipolar and on meds and still crazy as hell. My sis would have outbreaks of sheer insanity screaming on the phone with her boyfriend - I would never want her carrying a firearm around when she gets pissed off, who knows what would happen? :eek:, I still love her though, after all she is my sister.

I will say its a little different owning a gun and keeping it at home incase of a home invasion, or taking it to the range to plink. Its a whole nother story if you want to take that firearm in public and carry it around.
 
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