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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so I have been toying with the idea of getting a .22 hand gun or a .22 kit for my ar-15, but yesterday my neighbor stopped me when I was about to leave to come up to my parents house for the weekend.

He was talking about his wife seeing a figure standing outside their window - he is getting ready to be deployed and told me to keep an ear out for trouble incase it really is someone casing out the complex.

We live across the street from the ghetto in my town. I dont think there is a lot of crime where I live because its just such a small town, but the thing that sucks is that our complex is in the shape of a |_| where the main road passes, you cant see anybodys door.

So I am not sure if I need to start building up my ar15 for anti-crackhead service or if I should start looking at a shotgun or handgun.

I need something that if I HAD to use it, I wouldnt have to worry about rounds going through walls or through doors, etc. Thats my main fear in all of this...
 

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I would say the worst option would be a rifle, most likely the best option would be a handgun with quality hollow points and possibly a shotgun with bird or buckshot (not slugs) depending on the distance you are shooting, bird shot may be plenty. I have several different weapons for self defense in my residence and the first grab is the pistol with a tac-light, followed closely by the shotgun with 00 buck.
 

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... the aristocrats
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I wouldn't want to use .223 inside an apartment, it's gonna go through the walls.

My Condo nightstand gun is a .357 Magnum with Glasser Saftey Slugs. They'll do a pretty good job at close range and I don't have to worry about wiping out the whole wing of my complex if I miss a shot.
 

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Bird shot will not take someone down, you need 00 or 000 buck to do it. Glaser slugs are up in the air for me since I have seen tests that show they do not have good enough penetration. Anything that can put down a human will go through a wall. Its really up to you, but I would say handgun with Gold dots in it, or if you go rifle make sure you use a good tactical rifle round with controlled expansion and penetration. You really just need to be a good marksman.
 

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BTW I have a Beretta Cougar in 40 S&W 165gr Gold Dots as my protection gun. My wife has her CZ 40 with the same ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Have yet to really find a pistol I like - I would be looking at a 9mm most likely, either a glock, walther p99 or steyr ma-1.

As far as shotguns go, I have been pretty fond of sagia 12's (wouldnt get it because I would spend way too much on it in customizing) and mossberg 590a1's.

Have been also going to the extreme side of things, thinking of that mp5 clone made by coharie and going the SBR route.

I am a much better shot with my rifle than any hand gun so far, and I think thats what is making me not want one :-/. Is it tough to get good at shooting pistols?
 

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Pistols are a whole other world of shooting. Trigger work being the key to accuracy.

I would look at the Kel Tec SUB 2000 as an alternative. Uses glock mags, which means you can have over 30 rounds. They are ugly, but inexpensive and effective. You could also go the AR 9mm route.
 

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Blindeye_03 said:
I am a much better shot with my rifle than any hand gun so far, and I think thats what is making me not want one :-/. Is it tough to get good at shooting pistols?
Just like everything else, practice makes perfect (well not perfect but you get the point)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I thought about the ar15 9mm also, but if I go spending that amount of money ~$700, might as well grab up a 9mm ca-94 for around $1100.

As far as handguns go, do certain ones shoot different than others?

As I try to remember the pistols I have shot... g23, cz52, p22, g23c, and a g19.

I did horrible with the cz52, and p22. Ok with the g19 and a little better with the g23c this weekend. I didnt do stellar, but I did manage to hit the target when I was thinking through my shots.
 

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Its really all about matching caliber and ergonomics. People have a habit of pulling the gun with their trigger finger while trying to depress it.

I think the Kel Tecs are in the neighborhood of 450 bucks, and they fold in half which is good. I would really check them out first. You can also get them in 40 S&W.

Ruger made some good ones as well, the PC40 and PC9 that use the P series mags. A little more traditional, but equally good.
 

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As far as i recall, you did not do to bad with the CZ-52.. I will say, that gun takes some time getting used to. Also thats not a good gun if you DONT want to punch holes in walls because thats what it does best. ;)

they have one of those Kel Tec folding rifles at bullseye, I think they try and keep them in stock at all times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
fatcat said:
As far as i recall, you did not do to bad with the CZ-52.. I will say, that gun takes some time getting used to. Also thats not a good gun if you DONT want to punch holes in walls because thats what it does best. ;)

they have one of those Kel Tec folding rifles at bullseye, I think they try and keep them in stock at all times.
lmao, yeah thats another reason why I dont want the cz52 - they are cheap and have nice curves ;) haha.

Not sure about the keltec - what do they usually go for?
 

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Blindeye_03 said:
As far as handguns go, do certain ones shoot different than others?
This merits an unequivocal YES. For an example I'll use my shotgun experience. I couldn't hit squat with my buddy's 870 when I first picked up shooting clays for fun. I went to the local gun-mecca and shouldered every pump they had and eventually came across my Nova. The other shotguns would work, but every time I picked up a Nova it came to my shoulder in a perfect firing position. There was no need for me to readjust on every shot because it was already in the correct firing position. From that point on I started hitting clays at twice my previous rate and a week later got my first perfect 20/20.

In buying my first handgun I did the same thing. I picked up different guns until I found one that felt proper in my hand without making grip adjustments. I ended up with a 1911 and shoot quite well with it. The only other pistol I've shot as well as it was a Ruger 22/45 which has the same grip angle and similar ergonomics as the 1911. I've shot other pistols acceptably, but nothing "falls into" my hand quite the same way.

Once you've found the proper fit there are a lot of other questions such as what the gun's going to be used for and what calibers you'll be looking at.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thats what bothers me about ordering a steyr ma-1. I dont know of any place that has them in stock so you can shoot one of them.. Otherwise, the price is right and they seem to be pretty reliable.

I dont know what it is, maybe the fact that Fatcat's Glock 23 has the compensator, but I shot better with it than I did the Glock 19. But I also liked how it felt in my hand - I think I needed to hold it a bit tighter & more firm than I was.


I have time to decide what I will end up getting...I cant get anything for another month or two.
That keltec is ugly as hell LOL, but if I get another rifle its either going to be the m44 or the mp5 clone (and SBR it).
 

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pistol only, in .357 .40 .45 and KEEP it stock, do nothing to it, (aka law sute)

need enougth loading to stop someone but not so much as to look like you wanted to kill someone.

just get to the range at least once a month.:shoot:

and study up on what to do, say, and what the law is about were you live.

but most inportent is what not to say to a cop, those around you, or the jury.

just remember your live will be in the hands of 12 people who could not get out of jury duty.:eek:
 

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Packnrat, would following the basic rules of grammar kill you? Modifying your pistol doesn't lead to a lawsuit. Modifying it in an illegal manner does. If you don't believe it, just look at any of BrokenArrow's posts about his many customized Glocks.

The second line of your post also doesn't make sense from the perspective of the law. If you are in a self defense position and are forced to use a firearm, you sure as hell don't want to try and wound someone. The purpose of a firearm in that situation is to stop the threat. If you say that you were trying to wound someone in court it can be seen as malicious intent and cruel and unusual. The most important thing rather than what not to say to a cop/jury/judge is what not to do to keep yourself within the law.

Can anybody else chime in here?
 

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As far as not going to jail after a defensive shooting, it's a matter of having a good attorney in your corner and knowing what to and what not to say if you are placed on the stand. It's also a matter of knowing what to and not to say to the police during a preliminary interview, never under any circumstances, talk to the police without an attorney present. To do this you don't have to be smart about it, simply say "I'll answer any questions you have for me, but I would like to have my attorney present during questioning". Doing this will keep you from answering the wrong questions, or stepping on a rake that the police lay down for you.

As to the question of custom work on the defensive weapon, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making the weapon a more accurate, effective defensive tool by way of a reliability/accuracy job and addition of good combat sights, preferably of the tritium or fiber optic variation for low light shooting. If anything having an appropriate defensive tool will go to demonstrate that you want the weapon to stop the threat only.

On the matter of ammunition, use an appropriate loading, if you live in an apartment building with thin walls, don't load a super hot defensive round designed to shoot through barriers, in this type of environment, a standard pressure jacketed hollow point will do just fine. The key is to have a round that has adequate penetration to stop the threat, but not so much as to go through the intended target and still have enough juice to take out the neighbors too.

Just my $0.02
 

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Ok so I have been toying with the idea of getting a .22 hand gun or a .22 kit for my ar-15, but yesterday my neighbor stopped me when I was about to leave to come up to my parents house for the weekend.

He was talking about his wife seeing a figure standing outside their window - he is getting ready to be deployed and told me to keep an ear out for trouble incase it really is someone casing out the complex.

We live across the street from the ghetto in my town. I dont think there is a lot of crime where I live because its just such a small town, but the thing that sucks is that our complex is in the shape of a |_| where the main road passes, you cant see anybodys door.

So I am not sure if I need to start building up my ar15 for anti-crackhead service or if I should start looking at a shotgun or handgun.

I need something that if I HAD to use it, I wouldnt have to worry about rounds going through walls or through doors, etc. Thats my main fear in all of this...
A bullpup shotgun with #4 birdshot is probably one of the safest bets in an apartment. If any says it’s not enough stopping power then they just don’t know. Small, compact easy to maneuver in a small apartment. I like the KSG for this because with 2 tubes you can carry 2 different loads at the same time.
 
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