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Discussion Starter #1
Little man ahs started getting into this airsoft stuff, which I know nothing about. I'be been looking all over the net all night trying to learn more, mostly I realised this is gonna cost me a shitload of money; which I should have known since everytime his mother starts a convo with " You're son ......." it's usually expensive lol

I've read ORCA's newbie post and other forums, most of I've read was hard to understand since they use airsoft language which is foreign to us newbies, I spent 1 hour trying to find out what HOPUP means. I think I have a basic knowledge of airsoft but I still have a few questions.

1 AEG vs GBB, I didnt find much to compare the 2, most forums required registery to view. The DUMBORAT newbie post helped a lot but it's dated 2001, a lot can change in 5 years. Are gbb guns still unreliable as they say or are they better?

2 Is there an average FPS range that most squirmishs use? Is the FPS range apply to DMM/snipers as well?

3 How reliable are upgrades, and if squirmishs have limits why bother upgrading?

4 can you use a "real steel" scope on an airsoft gun. or does it destroy them the same as a bb/pellet gun?

5 I checked out the AEX site, what makes the AE MAX line so much more enpensive? they are no faster than the other lines, in most cases slower so why the extra $$$?

6 How do the shotguns work? and what is the range?

7 Any stuff to stay away from? guns, manufactures, parts accessories etc....

* Any other info you feel like throwing out there feel free, it will be greatly appreciated.


His " squad" is just getting started so he doesn't know what his role will be;the only gun he has is the G&G socom16;which means i can just buy shit lol I got my eye on over 10 guns that I like and know he'll like but I'd like to know a little more before I go on a shopping spree.

Hopefully I didn't ask any repeated questions and you give can help me out. If i did i apologise, and thanks for the info.
 

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1. Yes there is a huge difference. First off, Since AEG's are usually rifles, they have more ranger. They are a very powerful type of wepon, with high FPS and huge rate of fire, combined with high capacity clips . GBB's use gas, which runs out fast. They are usually pistols, even though there are some SMG's and if u want to go extreme, there are CO2 powered airsoft rifles. The problem with these are, they run out of juice after 20-30 shots(pistols) and they dont have high capacity clips. Not to mention they do not have the range that an AEG does. I personally have a AEG and a GBB pistol. The AEG is good for mid-long range, and i use the pistol for CQB(Close Quarters Combat)

2.The average FPS i would say is 350fps for a good airsoft gun. This can be compensated with high rates of fire, instead of distance. FPS is determined by the ristance of the spring, and the quality of the tightbore barrel inside the gun.Most big skirmishes i have read up on only let AEG's shoot 400fps max, and sniper rilfes 550fps(they have to be bolt action). Most AEG's dont shoot at 400fps stock, you need to upgrade your gun for that kinda speed. if your chosing a Fps that your son could play everywhere with, the lowest max i have seen is 350 fps and thats at a CQB arena.

3.Any airsoft gun you upgrade will break. It just depends on how well you upgrade it. If you upgrade the spring, you must upgrade the gears as well. I would also suggest a bigger battery. Most skirmishes have a max fps of 350-400 fps.

4.Yes you can, and alot of people do. I saw someone use a real hollogram scope, which works well with airsoft. The only thing i could see you having a real problem with, are the mounts and rings for the scopes.

5.AE MAX guns are more expensive because they have higher quality parts in them. They also look really really cool. They are just upgraded airsoft guns. Also, i would, intill you get alot more expirenced in airsoft, only buy for airsoft extreme. They stand behind all their products.

6. It depends on the shotgun. Some shotguns act like normal spring/gas guns.
Some shoot as many shots as you pump them. Some just shoot sprays of 3 bb's per shot. Some you load with a clip, and some u load with shells. They are very diverse. Shotguns tend to be hard to use when play with people using AEG's. Since AEG's RoF is so high, someone using a shotgun, or single shot gun.

7. Alot of people will have different opinions, but these are the guns i think you should stay away from

ICS: They are more expensive sometimes then TM and CA but they dont 2nd hand work

UTG: They are good if you just want to go in your backyard, but when in a scrimish i find their quailty isnt good enough for a scrimish.

ANY first generation G&G gun. Most g&g guns are really good, my primary is a G&G GR16 carbine, but they seem to make their first generation guns too sooun and dont get enough kinks out.

acually instead of giving u a list of what not to get, ill give u a list of what i have found to be good guns.

Tokyo mauri
G&G
Classic Army
G&P
Western Arms
Maruzen
Marushin
Star
Top(the Mp40 is the only one i tried)
Tanaka
HFC
KWA
Basically anything airsoft extreme sells

NOte: ALmost every gun breaks. Tokyo mauri seem to be the most reliable, but they lack the power that sometimes people need. Some guns break sooner of later. My G&G broke with in 2 months, but i have only had it in the shop once, and i hear people paying after every time the scrimish with some of their guns, so im happy. its very important to find a gun that you like the feel of, because its really the player that makes you have fun, not the gun.
 

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I've got a TM FAMAS thats totally stock and supposedly has been running for 10 + years.

Personally, I've never had a TM break down when its stock. If you don't fiddle with it it will last a good long while
 

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Jeremy said:
1 AEG vs GBB, I didnt find much to compare the 2, most forums required registery to view. The DUMBORAT newbie post helped a lot but it's dated 2001, a lot can change in 5 years. Are gbb guns still unreliable as they say or are they better?
AEG's are more reliable and consistent then GBB's still. All airsoft GBB's suffer from what's called a cool down problem when shot in rapid fire. (The mag cools each shot. The cooler the mag gets the more gas is used to cycle each round). Dumborat's post is still pretty valid. AEG's are based on 1991 technology and GBB's are even older.

Jeremy said:
2 Is there an average FPS range that most squirmishs use? Is the FPS range apply to DMM/snipers as well?
Yes. Most orgnanized skirmishes and fields will post their FPS limits. Here's Combat Enterprises FPS game limits:

Combat Enterprises said:
What are the FPS limits?
Outdoor: 400 fps (ft/sec) or less with .20g ammunition.
Indoor: 320 fps (ft/sec) or less with .20g ammunition.
All guns will be checked with a chronograph and tagged before they are allowed on the field. This is done to ensure safety.
Some fields and skirmishes have limits based on type of weapon liek AEG, Bolt Action Rifle, etc.

Jeremy said:
3 How reliable are upgrades, and if squirmishs have limits why bother upgrading?
Most TM AEGs are stock at 270fps. Later generations like the M14 and Type 89 are 300+fps. CA, G&P, G&G are 320-340 fps stock. So upgrading gets you up to the specific field limits. Once you upgrade a TM your durability will suffer depending on the type of upgrade and if you upgrade ALL related parts.

Jeremy said:
4 can you use a "real steel" scope on an airsoft gun. or does it destroy them the same as a bb/pellet gun?
Yes you can use a real steel scope. 4x Magnification is overkill for most airsoft since the range is not anywhere near an air rifle. Redots and Holographics scopes work well in airsoft though. Theres a few real steel maginified scopes liek the ACOG that have airsoft replica counterparts as a non magnified reddot scope.

Jeremy said:
5 I checked out the AEX site, what makes the AE MAX line so much more enpensive? they are no faster than the other lines, in most cases slower so why the extra $$$?
Most cases they have already installed a group of cosmetic/performance upgrades for you. The price of AEMax guns are usually cheaper then if you pieced the parts yourself. But they always specifcally list what they are putting into their AEMAX guns so in some cases your just paying for all the added parts plus installation.

Jeremy said:
6 How do the shotguns work? and what is the range?
There are a few different types of airsoft shottys. The Tokyo Marui's have 3 inner barrels and shoot 3 shots at once. Range wise it would be like shooting a spring base sniper rifle. The 3 shots travel relatively far and straight. The Maruzen CA870 (Most copied airsoft shotgun) series is pump action single shot, again not shtogun like. There's a the Maruzen Gas shotgun series that is Gas Blow Back and will fire multiple shots at once, but the newer models use shotgun shells that eject, but are expensive and easy to break/loose. My advice on shotguns is the same as bolt action airsoft rifles. If you're going against peeps with AEG's you'll be out gunned.

Jeremy said:
7 Any stuff to stay away from? guns, manufactures, parts accessories etc....
Yes, too many to list though. Maybe making up a list of things you are specifically looking at, mihgt be a better way to tackle this.

Not One and Yeager said:
Any airsoft gun you upgrade will break. It just depends on how well you upgrade it. Personally, I've never had a TM break down when its stock. If you don't fiddle with it it will last a good long while
Werd. My first AEG, a TM P90 has never had problems from 2001. I can't say the same for anything I've upgraded.

1 thing to keep in mind, is even with the difference in FPS the actual ranges are all pretty close. So your mostly buying an airsoft weapon based on looks/features adn hopefully reliabilty.
 

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yes, this is a very tru fact

1) dont buy a cheap brand of airsoft, it'l break real quick!!!

2) dont buy the most expensive either.

tokyo mauri's are very dependible in, skirmish, battle, or just plinking :):)
 

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Jeremy said:
1 AEG vs GBB, I didnt find much to compare the 2, most forums required registery to view. The DUMBORAT newbie post helped a lot but it's dated 2001, a lot can change in 5 years. Are gbb guns still unreliable as they say or are they better?

2 Is there an average FPS range that most squirmishs use? Is the FPS range apply to DMM/snipers as well?

3 How reliable are upgrades, and if squirmishs have limits why bother upgrading?

4 can you use a "real steel" scope on an airsoft gun. or does it destroy them the same as a bb/pellet gun?

5 I checked out the AEX site, what makes the AE MAX line so much more enpensive? they are no faster than the other lines, in most cases slower so why the extra $$$?

6 How do the shotguns work? and what is the range?

7 Any stuff to stay away from? guns, manufactures, parts accessories etc....

* Any other info you feel like throwing out there feel free, it will be greatly appreciated.


His " squad" is just getting started so he doesn't know what his role will be;the only gun he has is the G&G socom16;which means i can just buy shit lol I got my eye on over 10 guns that I like and know he'll like but I'd like to know a little more before I go on a shopping spree.

Hopefully I didn't ask any repeated questions and you give can help me out. If i did i apologise, and thanks for the info.

1. I wouldn't say that ALL GBBs are unreliable, but if you get one, get a quality one. (KWA/KSC seems to be the best, in my experience) As mentioned previously, AEG's have much better range than a GBB, but if it's a full auto GBB (pistol or otherwise) it will most likely have a higher rate of fire than a stock AEG. (A good example being the Maruzen MP5-K, and KWA Glock 18C)
A decent stock AEG should be in the area of 250-300 FPS for TM and "the others", and about 320-350 for a CA. A decent stock GBB should be in the area of 300 FPS. (In my experience anyways.) However, there is an exception to that. A CO2 powered GBB will usually be shooting too "hot" for any given skirmish, in the vincinity of 450-500+ FPS. Although they DO work great for shooting annoying critters such as pigeons. ;)

2. In my experience, skirmishes usually have a limit of 400-450 FPS for any gun except a bolt action sniper rifle, which usually has a limit of 500 (or higher). Just remember: "FPS limits are LIMITS, not GOALS." ;)

3. As explained by someone (I thought it was dumborat, but I may be wrong), any gun WILL break at some point in time. You can classify it into two different kinds of "breakages". A stock gun will usually break more often than an upgraded AEG, but they will be minor things, replacing a small, inexpensive part, and minor regular maintenance. An upgraded AEG won't break as often as a stock AEG, but when it DOES break, it will usually be something big, like replacing most of the gearbox or something, because while the parts are more durable, there's also alot more stress on the parts. Personally, the only upgraded gun I have is a KWA Glock 18C, which was defective from the seller (AirsoftGI), but I believe it's a minor fix. (I'm just lazy)

4. Generally, any external modification you can get for a real steel gun will fit an airsoft gun. While this is not a blanket statement that works for everything ever made, it's generally true. If you're not sure, ask someone that knows, such as AEX or Orca. ;)

5. I have no clue, but someone else apperently does. I've kinda wondered that myself. :)

6. This has already been explained better than I could do it...

7. Brands to stay away from, in my personal experience:

Anything that can be bought at Wal-mart (or K-mart, etc), with the exception of the Cyber-gun CO2 powered S&W Sigma .40F... It's a great value, especially if you need spare parts for a standard non-clear one. :)

Any KJW pistol... I've had too many KJW pistols that sucked for me to buy another one... On the other hand, the KJW M700 sniper rifle is great. While the Mk1 Carbine isn't a bad gun in itself either, I used to have one, and we had a minor... "Accident" with it, and I wouldn't recommend buying it, unless it's for shooting those pesky critters. ;)

KWC pistols, except for the above mentioned CO2 Sigma, which is also sold under the Cybergun name. The Sigma rocks, everything else I've used sucked.

Anything Cybergun, except that good old Sigma. ;)

SRC is one of those "OK" brands... While they make decent starter guns for someone that's not sure if they REALLY want to get into airsofting seriously, they are by no means a serious skirmishing weapon.

And in closing... I haven't especially enjoyed my experiences with TM, other than the MP-7, but my brother has a Sig 550 (great deal, if it's really a TM and we really get it) on the way, so we'll see about it... I've had a Sig 552 and Uzi personally, and I've held an AK-47, a Famas, a P90, and maybe others I'm forgetting about, and the Uzi is the only one that I thought felt like a "quality" gun. The P90 wasn't terrible either, I guess.

But, basically everyone will tell you TM's are great, so... I must be wrong. ;)
 

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Scirion said:
but my brother has a Sig 550 (great deal, if it's really a TM and we really get it) on the way, so we'll see about it... I've had a Sig 552

But, basically everyone will tell you TM's are great, so... I must be wrong. ;)
Beware TM Sig550 had electronic 3 shot burst function. They failed most the time... Mostly due to people running hotter batteries in them, or not cleaning lubing the gearbox enough. But any sort of electrical load on the gearbox for whatever reason would fry the cricuit board. This is why the 550 and 551 were discontinued and partially why the 552 was problematic from an upgrade standpoint. (The 552 is problematic due to how the gearbox and internals are suspended withing the plastic body. AEX techs hate working on them since it takes 4 hands to reassemble correctly)

Anyway if your bro hasn't already sent funds have him ask alot of questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
ORCA said:
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Yes you can use a real steel scope. 4x Magnification is overkill for most airsoft since the range is not anywhere near an air rifle. Redots and Holographics scopes work well in airsoft though. Theres a few real steel maginified scopes liek the ACOG that have airsoft replica counterparts as a non magnified reddot scope.
Cool, i've got at least 20 reddots, holo's and very low power scopes; maybe even a nightvision and IR if i look hard enough; and 5 or 6 lights stacked in my basement that i never use.


Thanks for all the info guys, it is very helpful. I'm gonna reread all these again and this weekend I'll start shopping

One more question, what's your typical battle ready load out consist of?
 

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Jeremy said:
Cool, i've got at least 20 reddots, holo's and very low power scopes; maybe even a nightvision and IR if i look hard enough; and 5 or 6 lights stacked in my basement that i never use.


Thanks for all the info guys, it is very helpful. I'm gonna reread all these again and this weekend I'll start shopping

One more question, what's your typical battle ready load out consist of?
My M4,
2 hi cap mags
1 C-mag
knee pads
Combat boots
Combat Vest
Camel back
Paintball mask
and of course Cammo
 

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Jeremy said:
Cool, i've got at least 20 reddots, holo's and very low power scopes; maybe even a nightvision and IR if i look hard enough; and 5 or 6 lights stacked in my basement that i never use.


Thanks for all the info guys, it is very helpful. I'm gonna reread all these again and this weekend I'll start shopping

One more question, what's your typical battle ready load out consist of?
It really depends on the skirmish/game you'll play and how much of a geardo you turn out to be. Seems you like the finer things Jer ;)

www.skdtac.com is a good place to look at:

I always have my HSGI plate carrier, then add or subtract pouches for the game type. This plate carrier has internal integrated mag pouches that will accomodate up to 7.62 size magazines. If a plate carrier is a bit much though then a chest rig works perfectly.



I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I'd rather carry more low/mid cap magazines, then a couple of the noisy high caps in game.

But def check with who/where you're going to play. Ballistic goggles and/or approved paintball masks will be required and you don't wanna end up looking like this:

http://aex.fullmetalimage.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2368

If I do goggles only I wear a mouthguard.
 

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Well, I play in smaller games with less than 20 people, usually, so I've managed to fit my entire loadout (minus the camo and boots I'm wearing) into a very small backpack. That IS including the gun by the way. ;) (CA G36C)
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
The only stuff I gotta buy him are the gun related things, face masks and pants. As far as the "geardo" i'm seeing this as a way to get rid of shit.

I got a 6'l x 3'w x 3'h wooden box in the basement thats filled with vests, tac vests, assults vests, plate carriers, plates, pouches, ruck's, daypacks, alice's, hydration systems, and ghille's, thats the stuff i don't use. If I ship it to him and his buddies I can get all the stuff I use off the top of the box and actually have a little extra room lol

I'm anal about my gear, 95% of it comes from Blackhawk and Blackwater. When it comes to operater gear these guys got it right. Tough, comfortable and user friendly.

http://www.blackhawk.com/product_catalog.asp?d=

http://proshop.blackwaterusa.com/istar.asp?a=3&dept=BWG
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I've tried most companies and the stuff just suck, their pouches and add on are good. HSGI's drop leg holster as the best I've found so far. But as far as vests carriers and harness they just don't have enough load support. You can add stuff forever room they got, but they give you 2 little suspender type straps to take the weight of the load. Blackwater and Blackhawk have better support and weight distrobution then any1 else I've found. I've tried others and am always dissapointed.
 

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So I got my shopping list of the guns he likes today and most of the stuff is common easy to find.

G17
MK23
Sig 226
M4
SR25
G3
G36
MP5
M249 para Yada yada yada

Those are easy, but his favorites, which of course I can't find are the ZM weapons LR300 and KAC SR47. I've found parts kits for the LR300 and an SR47 for 1200$ that also comes from a parts kit but thats all. Does anyone make these guns just stock?
 

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GR300= LR300. Its made by G&G and it only preforms well in full auto. My freinds have had problems with it in semi auto, so low cap matches are bad for it. Low cap matches are when u may only use standard size mags. And going full auto with a standard lasts less then a second in most cases.

i would really suggest the m4 out of most guns, just because u can literally do anything with it. You can make it the ultimate CQB wepon, or turn it into a Light Machine gun.
 

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Jeremy said:
So I got my shopping list of the guns he likes today and most of the stuff is common easy to find.

G17
MK23
Sig 226
M4
SR25
G3
G36
MP5
M249 para Yada yada yada

Those are easy, but his favorites, which of course I can't find are the ZM weapons LR300 and KAC SR47. I've found parts kits for the LR300 and an SR47 for 1200$ that also comes from a parts kit but thats all. Does anyone make these guns just stock?
Your first 3 handgun pics are fine. Tokyo Marui, KSC, KWA would be the most reliable options.

As Not One said G&G makes an LR300. G&G has some qualtiy issues, so if he's not a "tinkerer", he'll have to be close to someone who is or a decent airsoft shop. You can convert a more relaible M4 to a LR300 though. The SR47 is still ony a kit that some places will build up for you if they have it in stock.

There is some fundamental design flaws with any airsoft Armalite style (TM orig or TM copies). These have/copied the version 2 internal gearbox. Hop up units are questionable, they all tend to loose compression and the small dial looses it's settings. The motor is held within the plastic pistol grip w/o reinforcement. They tend to get out of alignment. The newer generation TM M4 and M4 S-System have addressed these issues, but most M4/sr25s are based on the original generation and have/copied those above problems. All can be remedied by upgrades.

The Mp5 and G3 are solid guns. These are also basedon the version 2 geatbox. Lots of magazine wobble in the Mp5 no matter who the mfg is. G3's since they are so long suffer body flex somewhere. All can be remedied by upgrades.

G36 is based on the version 3 internal gearbox as is the AK family. A much improved internal system. Motor is held in a reingforced mount, Hop-up have great compression and dial stays locked on a setting.

M249. While I own 1, I came to the realisation I don't like to be the support gunner.

1) weapon weight and mass
2) don't like the "maracas" effect of the 2000+ round magazine
3) with electric box magazine installed it's very uncomfortable to go from hip to shoulder aiming postion and back.
4) you need to have 1 finger on trigger and another on the electric switch of the box magazine. You can fix by upgrading and or rewiring

It's a great gun for the eye candy and would highly suggest it as a collectors piece. A company called TOP was the orignal peeps who made M60 and M249 AEG's, but stay away from those unless you're prepared to heavily upgrade the internals. My Classic Army M249 has been fine, no reliabilty issues so far. But you need to only run it with certain voltages of battery.
 

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why is there no M14 on the list i mean come on .i own 1 and it rapes every other gun i have a nd do own so you have to throw it into the mix .
 

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Discussion Starter #19
white boy said:
why is there no M14 on the list i mean come on .i own 1 and it rapes every other gun i have a nd do own so you have to throw it into the mix .
There prolly would be but he already has the G&G Socom16
 
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