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I want to CCW a 1911 in 10mm ... but I know NOTHING about 1911's

6K views 20 replies 7 participants last post by  mwink822 
#1 ·
I have never been a fan of 1911's. I still really don't like them, however it is a gun I SHOULD learn about. I believe it is just one of those things you need to know through first hand experience. So, someone point me in the direction of what makes a 1911 a commander, etc etc etc. What I should look for in a carry 1911, etc etc etc. Janq, I'm expecting you to spend a LOT of time in here. :) Thanks guys!
 
#2 ·
You're not going to have much luck with getting a Commander sized 1911 in 10mm as I am completely unaware of any 1911 maker that manufactures a Commander sized 1911 chambered for 10mm.

For purposes of CCW, I honestly don't find the Commander to really have any advantage over the Government sized 1911, and therefore if you really want a 10mm 1911, I'd say go for one of the many options in a Government sized 10mm 1911. Makers with 10mm 1911s include Colt, Kimber, Nighthawk Custom, Volkmann, Wilson Combat, Ron Phillips and others I'm sure.

For ideal concealability, I'd say go for something that is an Officer's sized pistol, or if you really want the best of all worlds, I'd say the best thing around is something designed around Colt's CCO platform which is an Officer's frame with a Commander barrel and slide. I personally have a Colt CCO and find it to be an outstanding little weapon.
 
#3 ·
FWIW, what works for Janq or I as a CCW 1911 will not necessarily work for you, my hallmark example is my preferred checkering on the frontstrap, I like a very sharp, aggressive 20 lpi checkering, whereas many will prefer the easier to grab 30 lpi, serration, or stipling. Some other things that I like in a 1911 that is carried are lack of forward cocking serrations, conventional GI recoil assembly, tritium bar/dot night sights, and I really like me Smith and Alexander Magwell. The other MUST have in a 1911 that is carried is good reliable mags. In this department you can't go wrong with Wilson Combat #47, Chip McCormick Power Mags, Tripp Research Cobra Mags or good ol' Checkmate mags with hybrid feed lips.
 
#4 ·
If you are considering other options, let me reccomend the EAA Witness in 10mm.

Otherwise you are going to have issues getting a 1911 in 10mm in a commander size. If you can tote a fullsize around then there are options, but the 10mm at its full bore strength does beat the 1911 platform pretty hard and the Colt Delta's had issues with breaking parts like the swingling link and slide stop with full Norma spec loads.

Personally I would run a hot 40 S&W or 45 acp +p in a commander size gun.
 
#5 ·
Adler said:
If you are considering other options, let me reccomend the EAA Witness in 10mm.

Otherwise you are going to have issues getting a 1911 in 10mm in a commander size. If you can tote a fullsize around then there are options, but the 10mm at its full bore strength does beat the 1911 platform pretty hard and the Colt Delta's had issues with breaking parts like the swingling link and slide stop with full Norma spec loads.

Personally I would run a hot 40 S&W or 45 acp +p in a commander size gun.
I agree, but again, when running a +P load in a sightweight framed 1911, be careful of the additional battering that the hotter load subjects the contact parts to.
 
#6 ·
But compared to the battering a 10mm gives, even a 45acp +p can be a bit mild.
 
#8 ·
True in allow guns that were designed with steel. The P1 Walther is a good example of what can happen when you dont take that into account. Lots of issues until the reinforced it in the early 70's.
 
#9 ·
I carry a full size 1911. Ideally, you want something with a throated barrel so it will feed hollowpoints (unless you like to use EFMJ). Other things to look for: beveled mag well, sights (recommend some sort of tritium night sights), and good mags. I use Mec Gar mags and have not had any issues with them. Another option to consider is whether or not you want an ambi-safety.

You could just go with .45 and that would expand your options quite a bit.
 
#10 ·
mwink822 said:
You're not going to have much luck with getting a Commander sized 1911 in 10mm as I am completely unaware of any 1911 maker that manufactures a Commander sized 1911 chambered for 10mm.

For purposes of CCW, I honestly don't find the Commander to really have any advantage over the Government sized 1911, and therefore if you really want a 10mm 1911, I'd say go for one of the many options in a Government sized 10mm 1911. Makers with 10mm 1911s include Colt, Kimber, Nighthawk Custom, Volkmann, Wilson Combat, Ron Phillips and others I'm sure.

For ideal concealability, I'd say go for something that is an Officer's sized pistol, or if you really want the best of all worlds, I'd say the best thing around is something designed around Colt's CCO platform which is an Officer's frame with a Commander barrel and slide. I personally have a Colt CCO and find it to be an outstanding little weapon.
I have no idea what you just said. It might as well be in Russian.

mwink822 said:
FWIW, what works for Janq or I as a CCW 1911 will not necessarily work for you, my hallmark example is my preferred checkering on the frontstrap, I like a very sharp, aggressive 20 lpi checkering, whereas many will prefer the easier to grab 30 lpi, serration, or stipling. Some other things that I like in a 1911 that is carried are lack of forward cocking serrations, conventional GI recoil assembly, tritium bar/dot night sights, and I really like me Smith and Alexander Magwell. The other MUST have in a 1911 that is carried is good reliable mags. In this department you can't go wrong with Wilson Combat #47, Chip McCormick Power Mags, Tripp Research Cobra Mags or good ol' Checkmate mags with hybrid feed lips.
Thanks, I wanted Janq's opinion because he not only explains in simple English what he likes, why he likes it, he also explains other options available.

Adler said:
If you are considering other options, let me reccomend the EAA Witness in 10mm.

Otherwise you are going to have issues getting a 1911 in 10mm in a commander size. If you can tote a fullsize around then there are options, but the 10mm at its full bore strength does beat the 1911 platform pretty hard and the Colt Delta's had issues with breaking parts like the swingling link and slide stop with full Norma spec loads.

Personally I would run a hot 40 S&W or 45 acp +p in a commander size gun.
Is the EAA Witness a 1911 style gun? Or just a 1911 inspired gun? The idea is to become familiar with 1911's through first hand experience. I am constantly coming across them and to be honest I don't even know how to take one down for a simple cleaning. They are 100% foreign to me other than firing a few. I will more than likely be picking up a Fortis Bren Ten when they finally come out, but not the first batch and not until they have been proven to be a solid gun.

Prod said:
I carry a full size 1911. Ideally, you want something with a throated barrel so it will feed hollowpoints (unless you like to use EFMJ). Other things to look for: beveled mag well, sights (recommend some sort of tritium night sights), and good mags. I use Mec Gar mags and have not had any issues with them. Another option to consider is whether or not you want an ambi-safety.

You could just go with .45 and that would expand your options quite a bit.
Excellent advice on the throated barrel. Something I did not know. I would like to stay with 10mm.
 
#11 ·
KingPerformance said:
I have no idea what you just said. It might as well be in Russian.



Thanks, I wanted Janq's opinion because he not only explains in simple English what he likes, why he likes it, he also explains other options available.



Is the EAA Witness a 1911 style gun? Or just a 1911 inspired gun? The idea is to become familiar with 1911's through first hand experience. I am constantly coming across them and to be honest I don't even know how to take one down for a simple cleaning. They are 100% foreign to me other than firing a few. I will more than likely be picking up a Fortis Bren Ten when they finally come out, but not the first batch and not until they have been proven to be a solid gun.



Excellent advice on the throated barrel. Something I did not know. I would like to stay with 10mm.
Sorry, I was trying to crank out a really fast reply in between watching the Flyers last night.

Most 1911s that you find in 10mm are going to be the full sized Government variety (5" barrel) and frame cut for a standard sized 7 (or 8) round magazine. I like the checkered front strap, specifically at 20 LPI because it provides a very aggressive, positive grip on the gun whether shooting under ideal conditions, with hands that are cold, gloved or wet.

My trigger preference is just that, a preferance. On a 1911 I like something at the 4-5 lb pull mark, but if it goes as high as 6, I can live with it. Teh skeletonized commander is a lightweight hammer that must be used in conjunction with a beavertail (the doohickey that goes into the thumb/palm web of your), a standard spur hammer as found on the old WWII era Colts will not work with this type of hammer. I like an extended single sided safety for ease of manipulation and for the serrrated surface, again for ease of manipulation. I have nothing against an ambidexterous safety, but being right handed, I have no use for a thumb safety on the right side of the gun, all of my 1911's except for two, however have the extended ambidexterous variety. My preference for checkered rosewood grips is both functional and aesthetic. I prefer wood grips on a 1911 as opposed to rubber or composite, and the checkered surface also aids in positive grip on the gun.

I don't like front cocking serrations (although all but one of my 1911s has them) since they tend to tear up the inside of a leather holster a little faster, and some say they slow draw time due to an additional rough surface having to come out of the leather.

A standard GI recoil system is simply the short recoil guide rod and solid end plug that the gun was originally designed for as opposed to the 'new fangled' one piece guide rods that are supposed to reduce muzzle flip, etc. I have a couple of guns with full length rods and don't see that much of a difference between them and the standard GI assembly.

The Smith and Alexander Magazine well that I like is to facilitate easier reloading without looking at what you're doing. It basically just takes the mag well cut into the frame and creates an extended funnel. It does add length to the gun's grip however, so if you're a small guy like me, you have to be careful when adding these to a gun.

Sights being bar/dot tritium is just a front tritium night dot on the front sight and horizontal tritium night bar on the rear sight. This aids in generating faster sight alignment as compared to say, a three dot sight set up.

When it comes to sizes of 1911's you have the Government (5" barrel) with 7 round standard mags, the Commander, (4.25" barrel) with 7 round mags, and Officer (3.5" barrel) with 6 round mags. The Government and Commander sized pistols use the standard GI or one piece guide rod assemblies, and the Officer sized pistols use the captive recoil assembly and a bull barrel (no barrel bushing).
 
#12 ·
Continued from above.

When you talk about frame materials, there are two varieties primarily for a 1911, steel and alloy (typically aluminium for the latter). Steel frames are standard for full sized 1911s, but full sized guns can also be had with alloy frames. Commander sized guns are basically a 50/50 split between alloy and steel frames, and Officer (compact) guns are almost exclusively alloy frames.
Steel framed guns can take the most abuse from hot loads. Alloy frames on the other hand tend to get beat up faster when extensively using hot (+P or +P+ loads). The reason this occurs is due to the way the the 1911 cycles.

IF you want to stick with a 10mm 1911, I'd recommend looking at the new Colt Delta Elite or the Kimber Eclipse Custom II. The latter wouldn't be my first choice, however because I do not like the firing pin block system on the Series II Kimbers (designated by II being stamped on the gun after the model name) This safety system works by pushing a pin up into the little plunger doohickey in the slide when the grip safety is depressed and disengaged. This can create issues with the timing of the system, though I 've never experienced this. It also creates problems for folks new to the 1911 manual of arms when re-assembling the pistol after field stripping. If you are grabbing the grip safety, the pin will protrude from the frame and the slide will not be able to go all the way on without forcing it on. If the slide is forced back past the pin, it WILL shear the top of the pin off and the gun will not function. This latter occurrence I did experience with a Kimber Custom II that was bought used. When teh pin is sheared, it won't protrude upward enough to disengage the firing pin block. The short of it is the Kimber Series II Swartz safety was designed as an improvement of the Colt Series 80 firing pin safety which acts in a similar manner to the firing pin safeties found on Glocks (i.e the block is disengaged as the trigger is pulled). This is because early Series 80 Colts had notoriously bad triggers.

Modern Colts in the XSE line (i.e. the 10mm Delta Elite) have very good triggers with little to no bounce or creep to them. That said, they also aren't going to give you the super clean, super crisp, stupid light trigger pull of a Wilson Combat, Les Baer or Nighthawk Custom (the latter three are all semi-custom gun builders).

For a first 1911 in 10mm, I'd say look for something used as these aren't all that common and the ones that I see are often from the semi-custom or custom builders and feature price tags well over $2,500.00. I see the odd Colt Delta Elite 10mm new, but those are going for right around $1,000.00 in my neck of the woods.

I tried to break this down in plain English as much as I could, but if it's still not all that clear, I appologize, I'm not very proficient at explaining stuff like this to someone else without having a visual/tactile aid.
 
#13 ·
The witness is not a 1911 pattern. It is a Hi power pattern. Doublestack mag, slightly different barrel camming, different controls.

I personally don't care much for the feel of a 1911. That said, after shooting a .460 Rowland last week, I kind of want something chambered in it (predominantly 1911s)
 
#14 ·
The EAA Witness is based on the CZ75, which is based off of the Browning Hi Power. The safety is 1911 style and it can be carried cocked and locked. It uses Brownings FN style of operation, which is a tilting barrel system, but stronger and more simplified.

What I love about the witness is that it can be had in 9mm, 40 S&W, 38 Super, 10mm, 45acp, and 22lr. And you can buy a slide assembly and mag for any of those calibers and they work on your frame. The only deviation is in the older ones that had two frame sizes.
 
#15 ·
http://www.gunatics.com/forums/member.php?u=449mwink822 thanks for the information, there is a lot to digest in that post.

Adler said:
The EAA Witness is based on the CZ75, which is based off of the Browning Hi Power. The safety is 1911 style and it can be carried cocked and locked. It uses Brownings FN style of operation, which is a tilting barrel system, but stronger and more simplified.

What I love about the witness is that it can be had in 9mm, 40 S&W, 38 Super, 10mm, 45acp, and 22lr. And you can buy a slide assembly and mag for any of those calibers and they work on your frame. The only deviation is in the older ones that had two frame sizes.
Adler, thank you for the information. The CZ75 is similar to the Dan Wesson line is it not?

I want to learn the 1911 before I branch out into other styles (Hi Power, etc) and I want the ease of concealing a single stack mag. I don't have a problem concealing my G29, but sometimes I wish it were thinner. With many saying over and over concealing a 1911 is stupid easy I'm starting to believe them. Looks like I should be looking into a Colt Delta Elite. THANKS GUYS!
 
#16 ·
No the CZ75 is nothing like Dan Wesson guns. Dan Wesson guns are based on the 1911 series 70 Colt guns. The CZ75 basically took the Browning Hi Power and modernized the ergonomics, added a very good SA/DA trigger, and boosted the capacity.

Many of the Dan Wesson 1911 guns are being discontinued and the 10mm is one of them if I recall.
 
#17 ·
KingPerformance said:
http://www.gunatics.com/forums/member.php?u=449mwink822 thanks for the information, there is a lot to digest in that post.



Adler, thank you for the information. The CZ75 is similar to the Dan Wesson line is it not?

I want to learn the 1911 before I branch out into other styles (Hi Power, etc) and I want the ease of concealing a single stack mag. I don't have a problem concealing my G29, but sometimes I wish it were thinner. With many saying over and over concealing a 1911 is stupid easy I'm starting to believe them. Looks like I should be looking into a Colt Delta Elite. THANKS GUYS!
FYI, if you end up getting a Colt Delta, you may want to make some changes to the gunright off the bat, specifically installation of a good set of night sights (my personal pick is for a Novak tritium bar rear and a tritium dot front, however, Straight Eights appear to be gaining some popularity among the 1911 crowd).

I would also recommend a different grip safety, particularly, an Ed Brown memory groove beaver tail. This will accomplish two things, it will allow you to get a higher grip on the gun, the design (at least in my opinion) mitigates the felt recoil (again due to higher grip), and the grooved bump on the safety assists with getting consistent positive disengagement of the grip safety.

Depending on your hands, you may also want to think about swapping out the arched mainspring housing for a flat piece (the mainspring housing is the arched doohickey right beneath the grip safety). My vote for swapping this out is due to the fact that the current Delta Elites appear to have the long triggers with the arched mainspring housing, which in my opinion is less than ideal. If a 1911 is to have an arched mainspring housing, my vote is always going to be for the short trigger found on the Colt Series 70 reproductions and the Colt WWI reproductions. For a long trigger, it is best to have a flat mainspring housing so that there is of a reach for your trigger finger.

I can tell you right now, that the above modifications should most definitely be done by a good gunsmith who is competent with the 1911. The sights will require machining of the slide and the installation of the beavertail will more than likely require some cutting of the frame for th part to be properly fit. There are some very good drop-in grip safeties avaiable for folks such as Wilson Combat, however, these may leave some gaps which aren't all that attractive.

Lastly, and this is critical of any 1911 pattern pistol, get some good combat magazines. 10mm 1911 mags will slightly limit your selection, but you can never go wrong with Wilson Combat #47 which I know are available in 10mm.

As an alternative to the Colt Delta, you may want to bank some cash and look at the Fusion Scout instead (www.fusionfirearms.com). These are essentially custom guns with prices starting around $1200.00, but you will have the ability to order it to your desired/required specifications.
 
#18 ·
Hi

It has been along sinse I have been on the forum.

I have a Colt delta elite in 10mm that I carry and has been 100% for the last 2715 rds.
It's all stock except for the grip safety I just changed that out for comfort.

The problems the the de had in the past have long past.

Very good gun it carries well for me.
 
#19 ·
shootest51 said:
Hi

It has been along sinse I have been on the forum.

I have a Colt delta elite in 10mm that I carry and has been 100% for the last 2715 rds.
It's all stock except for the grip safety I just changed that out for comfort.

The problems the the de had in the past have long past.

Very good gun it carries well for me.
Good to know, thanks. :)
 
#20 ·
I'm trying to be inquisitive, not sarcastic. With that said if you are not a fan of the 1911, why go any further with it? It's really pointless to pursue a gun you don't like, want, or have a lot of interest in. If it's a CCW gun you are looking for, you could go with most any model of Glock for about one third of what a good 1911 is going to run you.

Your options are all but unlimited with the Glock platform as to size, caliber, porting, non porting, etc. 9 MM, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and even 10 MM. All of them in any frame size or ammo capacity you could want. They are easy to learn to shoot well, and have many sight options. They are about the simplest semi auto pistol to operate, disassemble and clean. And every one of them, regardless of caliber or model, come apart and go together the exact same way. They are all but impervious to rust and corrosion, will run no matter what, and rarely break. I have 6 Glocks and 10 years ago you could not have given me one. They are a gun that once you become accustomed to them, will certainly grow on you. I can't think of a better investment from a dollar standpoint, that will save your life if called on to do it. Bill T.
 
#21 ·
billt said:
I'm trying to be inquisitive, not sarcastic. With that said if you are not a fan of the 1911, why go any further with it? It's really pointless to pursue a gun you don't like, want, or have a lot of interest in. If it's a CCW gun you are looking for, you could go with most any model of Glock for about one third of what a good 1911 is going to run you.

Your options are all but unlimited with the Glock platform as to size, caliber, porting, non porting, etc. 9 MM, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and even 10 MM. All of them in any frame size or ammo capacity you could want. They are easy to learn to shoot well, and have many sight options. They are about the simplest semi auto pistol to operate, disassemble and clean. And every one of them, regardless of caliber or model, come apart and go together the exact same way. They are all but impervious to rust and corrosion, will run no matter what, and rarely break. I have 6 Glocks and 10 years ago you could not have given me one. They are a gun that once you become accustomed to them, will certainly grow on you. I can't think of a better investment from a dollar standpoint, that will save your life if called on to do it. Bill T.
IIRC, the OP was seeking to become familiar with the 1911 platform. As for the Glock opinions, I agree in all respects, but I still don't shoot them as well as any other alternative that has a more neutral grip angle (i.e. Sig, HK, 1911, XD, etc). As for the CCW comment, I completely agree. If you don't like a particular weapon platform, don't run one as a CCW. Even though I have owned Glocks at a couple of different points in time, I did not really like carrying them in that I was not as proficient with them as I was with my other handguns.

I will say this of the 1911 though, I'd say that the 1911 is every bit as customizable as a Glock, if not more so, but 1911 modifications can get VERY expensive VERY fast.
 
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