Man shoots, kills intruder during home invasion, intruder turns out to be grandson
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Man shoots, kills intruder during home invasion, intruder turns out to be grandson

This is a discussion on Man shoots, kills intruder during home invasion, intruder turns out to be grandson within the CCW Conceal Carry forums, part of the Gun Forums category; As reported by WHAS 11: Man shoots, kills intruder during home invasion, intruder turns out to be man's grandson 05:36 PM EDT on Wednesday, July ...

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  1. #1
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Janq's Avatar
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    Man shoots, kills intruder during home invasion, intruder turns out to be grandson

    As reported by WHAS 11:

    Man shoots, kills intruder during home invasion, intruder turns out to be man's grandson

    05:36 PM EDT on Wednesday, July 1, 2009

    Photos from the scene

    WHAS11 Coverage

    Previous Coverage:

    Early morning home invasion turns deadly

    (WHAS11) - Police say a grandfather shot and killed his own grandson, after the 20-year-old broke into his grandparents' house.

    But WHAS11 News has learned the grandfather didn't realize who he was shooting until it was too late.

    Metro Police say the grandson came in through a back window wearing a ski mask around 4:30 a.m. on Wednesday. His grandfather woke up and saw the figure with a mask and opened fire.

    The shots killed his grandson, James Michael Keen, 20, who has a record of repeated drug charges. We're also told had stolen from his grandfather in the past.


    James Michael Keen

    Investigators say keen also fired at his grandfather, but they're not sure who shot first. We're told the gun keen had on him at the time was his grandfather's gun, previously stolen from his grandfather's car.

    It appears the motive of this morning's break-in was theft, but since it ended with Keen dead, WHAS11 asked police if his grandfather might face any charges.

    "The facts we have don't lead to that as far as I’m concerned-- for an arrest to be made. It seems to me to be a justified homicide, as far as self-defense, but that determination will come from the Commonwealth Attorney's Office,” said Lieutenant Barry Wilkerson, LMPD.

    However, Nicholas Joseph Spencer, 20, is under arrest. Police say he was waiting outside in the getaway car for Keen at the time of the shooting.

    A source also tells WHAS11 that Keen's grandfather first figured out it was his grandson just before police arrived, when he pulled the ski mask off Keen.

    Police say that the grandson also fired shots at the homeowner, his grandfather.

    The article with multiple phots and a video report can be found at; http://www.whas11.com/topstories/sto....2647d6d6.html

    - Janq

  2. #2
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Janq's Avatar
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    Comments:

    Yet another example of why it is very important to have at hand not just a firearm, but a firearm AND an illumination device so as to be able to SEE your target and confirm it as a threat.



    Being able to see your sights in darkness under such conditions is secondary, not primary.
    Having night sight will not allow you to better see what you are attempting to his, and not miss.
    Having a flashlight in hand though without having night sights will allow you to both see and confirm the target as dangerous and to see your sights if not simply point shoot considering the quarters are close.

    Additionally note that amongst the images there is evidence that at least two rounds as fired by the homeowner exited the perimeter walls of the house and entered public space, which itself covers a second point I've long stood on. Power factor.



    There are people who seriously believe that .308 and larger caliber firearms are proper for HD (!).
    Not adequate, 'proper'. There is a difference.
    If you do not live in a secluded area with no neighbors or sidewalks or public access streets/roads within a mile radius of your home, as a minimum, then yeah okay higher powered cartridges can be gotten away with.
    But the vast majority of people do not live as such regardless of they being city, suburban, or rural in location. Most people have neighbors as within eye distance. As doe this gentleman, whos rounds punched clean holes through his window and wall siding and took a trajectory amongst the outside public world.

    Every round we fire we are responsible for, period.
    No ifs, ands or but but buts.

    Having had a flashlight in hand, along with his firearm, this gentleman would have avoided not one (killing of grandson burglar) but quite possibly two or even three potential woundings/deaths of neighbors if those rounds that exited his home were fired by him and not his grandson.

    - Janq

  3. #3
    Gunatic Fanatic Chuck33079's Avatar
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    While the article makes it seem like a mistake on the grandfather's part, I'm kinda leaning toward a good shoot- This wasn't little Timmy visiting Granpa and getting shot by some senile old man. This was a meth-head in a ski mask coming in the window with a gun, and shooting at him. He should have been more cognizant of where the other rounds were going, but it's not a stretch to see him fearing for his life.

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  6. #4
    10111011 mattxander12's Avatar
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    Pistol calibers will punch holes through that kind of stuff no problem. Rifle calibers guarantee it. Knowing your backdrop is far more important than what caliber you're using. Again, under fire you're not going to care much about "will these rounds penetrate out into the open"; you're caring about if these rounds will save your life and stop the threat. To that end, I wouldn't care what caliber I was using as long as it got the job done. Rifles are, as you said, completely unsuitable for HD, ever. In a pinch, sure, but this isn't Urban Combat 101. This is Stay Alive 102, and its a pass or fail class. K.I.S.S..

    While a light would have certainly helped in accuracy, it wouldn't have helped in identifying the suspect as a relative in this specific instance. He was in a ski mask, with a firearm, and shooting back. Good point though, on light being the key to night time survival.

  7. #5
    00000 kartoffel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck33079
    While the article makes it seem like a mistake on the grandfather's part, I'm kinda leaning toward a good shoot- This wasn't little Timmy visiting Granpa and getting shot by some senile old man. This was a meth-head in a ski mask coming in the window with a gun, and shooting at him. He should have been more cognizant of where the other rounds were going, but it's not a stretch to see him fearing for his life.
    THIS. Even meth heads have grandparents. Violent crimes involve relatives, friends and neighbors far more often than they involve complete strangers.

    Still sucks that the grandfather now has to live with what went down. I.D. your targets!

  8. #6
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Nose Nuggets's Avatar
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    im kind of with Chuck. apart from the stray rounds; gramps did a good job in defending himself. from his own damn grandson. sad shit that, the kid has stolen from his grandfather multiple times and even exchanged rounds with him. at least the GG came out on top.

    that's going to be a tough call to your son/daughter or son/daughter-in-law.

  9. #7
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed, a good shoot in this specific case.
    To that end plain and simple...Though my comments were not toward that end at all.

    Agreed pistol caliber even down to a .22LR will result in same and yes backstop awareness is critical, though in a home all things being relative there is no backstop even if you're in a basement with cement walls.
    My point was higher powered firearms such as .308 and above is just unnecessary and even more inappropriate. For the exact reason I've stated above in that amongst a residential home there is basically for all practical purposes no backstop at all.

    Yet another reason and real world example of why a shotgun firing shot, not slugs (!), is FTW.

    - Janq

  10. #8
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Nose Nuggets's Avatar
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    ^ agreed on all points, Janq.

  11. #9
    Gunatic Fanatic Prod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck33079
    While the article makes it seem like a mistake on the grandfather's part, I'm kinda leaning toward a good shoot- This wasn't little Timmy visiting Granpa and getting shot by some senile old man. This was a meth-head in a ski mask coming in the window with a gun, and shooting at him. He should have been more cognizant of where the other rounds were going, but it's not a stretch to see him fearing for his life.
    I'm with you here. I would shoot anyone who came into my house with a ski mask and a gun, and there would be no mistake about it. Even if it were my brother. Common blood lines are not an excuse to lay down and die.

  12. #10
    10111011 mattxander12's Avatar
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    +1 ^^^. My thought process goes like this bit of code, as code is generally how I think, sadly.

    Code:
    if (BG_enters_house)
    {
    	dial_911 = TRUE; 
     	if (BG_not_armed)
    	{	
    		result = "tell BG to get down at gun point";
    		if (result == "BG subdued")
    		{
    			wait_for_cavalry = TRUE; 
    		}
    		else 
    		{
    			while (magazine != empty)
    				fire_gun = TRUE;
    		}
    		wait_for_cavalry = TRUE;
    	}
    	else
    	{
                    while (magazine != empty)
    		        fire_gun = TRUE; 
    
    		wait_for_cavalry = TRUE;
    	}
    
    	call_lawyer = TRUE;
    }

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