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Handgun Carry: Condition 3 aka 'Israeli Carry' = FTL

This is a discussion on Handgun Carry: Condition 3 aka 'Israeli Carry' = FTL within the CCW Conceal Carry forums, part of the Gun Forums category; I dunno about the sweaty palms thing. My M&P's serrations are quite abrasive...

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  1. #11
    10111011 mattxander12's Avatar
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    I dunno about the sweaty palms thing. My M&P's serrations are quite abrasive

  2. #12
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) mwink822's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattxander12
    I dunno about the sweaty palms thing. My M&P's serrations are quite abrasive
    My Desert Warrior has a couple of strikes against it, the primary being the super slippery Kim Pro II finish, the other being what Kimber calls a 'service melt' witch rounds off ALL shart corners to a damn near soap bar feeling finish. The Warrior and Desert Warrior aren't too far off from the CDPs insofar as lack of sharp edges is concerned.

  3. #13
    10111011 mattxander12's Avatar
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    what do you carry day to day ?

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  6. #14
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed Wink, I am not a fan of the new fashionable 'melt' jobs that have out these days which exactly as you describe take a perfectly fine handgun and turn it into a wet used bar of Ivory soap.
    Justification is on the premise that it makes concealed carry easier for less chance of snags upon deployment. I say BS. If anything then it's the rear of the gun such as the beavertail and hammer that should be reduced. The slide and front of the gun is not impeded by anything upon deployment. It's just to look tacti-cool.

    Matt the M&P line does not have a slick finish nor a factory 'melt'.
    The melt stuff is largely toward 1911s which S&W does not do to their own line, thank goodness.

    Still though slick or normal finish aside it's a known and documented fact that fine motor skills are greatly reduced and even the gross handling skills in many people are reduced as well under high stress induce adrenaline dump.
    A defensive handgun is a point and click weapon. Folks should KISS because at the end of Deebo's day it's your life that is at stake. Take every advantage to win, and accept no handicaps.

    - Janq

  7. #15
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) mwink822's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattxander12
    what do you carry day to day ?
    My preferred day to day carry is a Springfield Armory TRP full size 1911. I also carry a Glock 23 in the summer when I can't dress to hide the big ol' Government sized 1911 with extended mag well. I recently bought a Colt CCO to take up this role, but I'm still getting used to it's handling characteristics and don't want to put it on my belt until I can shoot it as well as I shoot my TRP. Right now, I'm still trying to get used to the recoil on the little CCO, it's similar to the TRP, but more pronounced thanks to the lightweight aluminum frame and therefore takes a couple fractions of a second extra to get back on target for follow up shots.

    I'm also looking for a different DA only polymer pistol in the same vane as the Glock but with better ergonomics for my hand.

    The slick finish and the coupled with the surface melt on the Desert Warrior is the reason that gun will never be anything but a home defense pistol.

    I agree with Janq so far as the meltdown treatments on 1911's go, they're about useless. The parts of the gun the get 'melted' down aren't the parts that would snag on clothing...the parts that would snag are the hammer, beavertail and maybe the sights depending on what is mounted and what kind of holster the gun is carried in. The only part of a 1911 that really needs a 'melt' treatment is the top rear corners directly below the rear sight. That's one spot that can dig into your side if you're not paying attention to how you sit/bend, and depending on holster, it's a spot that can wear a hole in a cover garment lickety split, in a hurry...cocking serrations do not need to be, nor should they be 'melted'.

  8. #16
    HOV
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    Bullet setback is the only issue I'd be wary of when carrying with a round in the chamber. I've heard of some people who mark the brass with a sharpie every time a round is chambered then unloaded unfired - after a certain number of marks, they won't fire the round.

  9. #17
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Janq's Avatar
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    HOV,

    Setback is applicable only as concern toward .40 S&W.

    9mm doesn't setback at all thanks to the design of the bullet and how it mates to the casing. While .45 JHP can experience some setback (FMJ does not) it is not of much consideration thanks to it being a low pressure type of cartridge. Outside of course of the bullet being setback so deep into the casing that it would very obvious and would appear to the naked eye as deformed/wrong.
    The only common defensive round out there with a concern for setback is .40S&W and that is due to the design of the bullet and casing. The casing normally is not crimped and that round runs at very high pressures just below ANSI standards. If the bullet gets setback even a modicum then the casings internal pressures upon discharge can go to an over pressure state. Also that rounds charge has a fast peak while other rounds including 9MM and especially .45 are much slower to build up pressure.

    The fix for any setback issues with a.40 is to rotate the round for the day to the bottom of your magazine every day or second day. Or to physically by eye inspect the cartridge daily before charging your weapon and leaving your home, to toss out any round that appears to be compromised with time. Or when loading to ride the slide down manually as opposed to letting spring pressure strip the round from the magazine.
    All of these items are very easy to do individually and a a trio of steps would not add but an extra 5s or so to ones pre-departure setup process. I do them all and it's easy, and I don't even run a .40. Out of my own mags and following my above suggestions I've seen just one .45 bullet with setback enough to be a concern, ever. I tossed it into the fire bucket at the range for disposal.

    An easy enough item to address if you understand the mechanics.
    Definitely not any reason to not carry ones handgun charged as it properly and optimally should be.

    Edit:
    Below is a pic of bullet setback against .45 ACP.
    The left most round is normal while the two to the right have varying degrees of setback. This is a very obvious item when the round is in hand, if you are paying attention as you load your mags and charge the weapon...to which you should be paying attention and aware.


    Additionally here is an article on .40 S&W bullet setback as it does occur but again singularly to people who are either unaware or they are not paying attention to their rounds when loading.

    "Set-Back" Suspected
    Don't be cheap! Rotate that service or carry ammunition on a regular basis.
    http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/setback.html

    - Janq
    Last edited by Janq; 02-27-2009 at 10:02 AM.

  10. #18
    10111011 mattxander12's Avatar
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    Even tho I roll with a 9... I load the "one in the chamber" by manually loading it into the open breech, then add a magazine after. My way of getting around the "stripping" motions with a topped-mag.

  11. #19
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) mwink822's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattxander12
    Even tho I roll with a 9... I load the "one in the chamber" by manually loading it into the open breech, then add a magazine after. My way of getting around the "stripping" motions with a topped-mag.
    I'd advise against this as it is a great way to destroy your gun's extractor claw. Always load from the mag. Ease the slide forward as Janq suggests if you are concerned about set back.

  12. #20
    10111011 mattxander12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwink822
    I'd advise against this as it is a great way to destroy your gun's extractor claw. Always load from the mag. Ease the slide forward as Janq suggests if you are concerned about set back.
    I'm ignorant on the subject. Care to explain it to me ?

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