This is what concealed carry is all about. (CCWs in FL vs. BG with a gun at grocery)
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This is what concealed carry is all about. (CCWs in FL vs. BG with a gun at grocery)

This is a discussion on This is what concealed carry is all about. (CCWs in FL vs. BG with a gun at grocery) within the CCW Conceal Carry forums, part of the Gun Forums category; As reported by the Palm Beach Post.com: Managers, customer all draw guns in West Palm Beach grocery By Sonja Isger Palm Beach Post Staff Writer ...

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  1. #1
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Janq's Avatar
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    This is what concealed carry is all about. (CCWs in FL vs. BG with a gun at grocery)

    As reported by the Palm Beach Post.com:

    Managers, customer all draw guns in West Palm Beach grocery

    By Sonja Isger

    Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

    Tuesday, April 29, 2008

    WEST PALM BEACH — It could've been a typical spat between grocery store customer and manager, with the customer announcing he planned to take his business elsewhere. But then the customer drew his gun. The store manager drew his and so did the assistant manager.

    It all happened at 5 p.m. Monday at the IGA Supermarket at 1000 36th St. in West Palm Beach. And in the end, West Palm Beach police arrested customer Marshall Hugo Grant for attempted first degree murder, shooting into an occupied dwelling, aggravated assault with a firearm and carrying a concealed firearm.


    Marshall Hugo Grant

    Police reported Tuesday morning that Grant, 73, entered the store through the exit despite manager Marino Hernandez's warning not to enter that way. The confrontation escalated, Grant drew a handgun, assistant manager Roberto Espinal drew his handgun. Hernandez also pulled a gun. Grant backed out of the store firing three times as he went, the arrest report states.

    The managers, who witnesses said never returned fire, ended up surrounding Grant, who hid behind a vehicle while continuing to fire, police report. Grant eventually surrendered his weapon to the managers once they told him police were on their way.

    The story can be found at; http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...oceryguns.html

    - Janq

    Note:
    This is a perfect example toward concealed carry at multiple levels. First it shows the very real and significant differences amongst concealed carry. We have three people doing so. One is a criminal acting person who is carrying with no permit/license who also is irrational as based on actions plural resulting in his brandishing of the weapon (stage 1) and ultimately discharge at others both being criminal by intent.
    Then we have two _victims_ who also are carrying concealed but they have done everything correctly. They are first and foremost licensed and permitted to do so. They when threatened and subsequently engaged by the BG with his brandished firearm they deploy their own self defense tools and go to the position of defense, and this is key. The good and lawful guys with guns were defensive while it was the BG who was to the offense.
    The BG fires shots at them and they while taking cover and/or concealment hold the guy by positioning without themselves actually firing a shot. They are able to do so and hold him because the BG knows he is now both outnumbered as well as each of his victims are in fact equally enabled as he is. His intended targets are empowered with equalizers. That is what carry and self defense in general and overall is all about. Being equal and having a fighting chance to survive, upon being victimized....not to be the victimizer.
    The good guys even went so far as to show excellent judgment and restraint to not return fire but by their positioning to hold the guys in position until the cops arrived while the bad man continued to discharge rounds in their direction (attempted murder).
    This is how most often concealed carry cases go down when it comes to mano y mano combat on the street. Further disallowing citizens from being able to defend themselves such as in this case for fear that they might flip out or injure others is baseless as per wide results, and not just as in recently reported FL.
    The bad guy he was not licensed and yet he still had a gun. How and why is of no relevance to we good guy citizens on the other side of the barrel. At the time of action against no one is going to ask a criminal acting BG hey where did you get a gun and are you licensed to carry that? Equally a bad guy upon finding the tables turned is not going to ask a citizen GG same. What will occur is as in this case the BG most often will retreat for fear of his own life. Further the GGs in this case saved not only their own life but that of their customers and the general population who just happened to by chance be standing next to and near them as this went down, which includes the majority who were not licensed to carry. As well they saved the life of the BG too (!) by use of tactics and techniques to not fire one shot while actively containing him which ultimately resulted in his surrender.

    This story is exactly what _lawful_ and _legalized_ citizen concealed carry and defense of self is all about.
    Citizens win, communities win, and BGs most often upon running up on a citizen who is 'licensed to carry' or is an off duty police who carries finds himself with a loss of advantage and very much often in these cases is at a loss.

  2. #2
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Janq's Avatar
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    Charges for the BG...

    Name: GRANT, MARSHALL HUGO Race: Black DOB: 05/03/1935
    Address:
    1003 GRANT ST
    WEST PALM BEACH, FL 33407 Facility: Main Detention Center
    Cell Location:M-S-06-C-21U-B
    Booking Number: 2008026033
    OBTS Number: N/A Booking Date: 04/28/2008 Time: 22:25
    Arresting Agency: 94 - WEST PALM BEACH Officer: HOUSTON
    Release Date: N/A Holds For Other Agencies:No
    Warrant Number: N/A Jacket Number: 0371889
    Charges:
    782.04-2536 HOMICIDE-WILFUL KILL-MURDER WHILE ENGAGED IN CERTAIN FELONY OFFENSE

    Original Bond: $0.00 Current Bond: $0.00
    790.19-2668 WEAPON OFFENSE-MISSILE INTO DWELLING VEH BUILDING OR AIRCRAFT

    Original Bond: $0.00 Current Bond: $0.00
    784.021-2558 AGGRAV ASSLT - WEAPON-W DEADLY WEAPON WITHOUT INTENT TO KILL

    Original Bond: $0.00 Current Bond: $0.00
    790.01-2616 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPON-FIREARM

    Original Bond: $3,000.00 Current Bond: $3,000.00
    His bond at just $3K is IMHO too low.
    Anyone can post bail (just 50% of the bond) at that price point.
    An act like this should have a high bond like $100K to reduce his chances of securing bail and fleeing into the wind, back amongst we the civilian population.

    - Janq

  3. #3
    10111011 mattxander12's Avatar
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    I wish they'd show pics of the crime scene. It seems that they were in real near proximity, and it'd be a spectacle that 3 bullets didn't strike the GG's. I agree, that was great restraint by the GG's... which is saying a lot considering bullets were flying in their direction.

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  6. #4
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Nose Nuggets's Avatar
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    i thought bail was full bond unless you go through a licensed bail bonds company in which case its 20%.

  7. #5
    Gunatic Loyalist (Bow down) Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nose Nuggets
    i thought bail was full bond unless you go through a licensed bail bonds company in which case its 20%.
    It maybe in your zone, these things do vary state to state.

    All I know directly is DC and MD, and they let (or at least last time I dealt with as much...my dad in '98 ) you bail out at 50% on bond.

    - Janq has never had to post bond personally for himself

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