How does this apply to protection of property ? Do you still need the same precursors ?
This is a discussion on Three easy citizen CCW rules to know and memorize to avoid hard times within the Knowledge Base forums, part of the General Gun Talk category; Preface: I'd originally posted this over at DefensiveCarry.com on 10/27/07 as at that time there were several threads going toward what to do, what not ...
I'd originally posted this over at DefensiveCarry.com on 10/27/07 as at that time there were several threads going toward what to do, what not to do, when to do stuff, justifiability, etc. toward SD/HD conditions. With that as motivation I put together this primer to help folk better understand the answers to the above questions as per the multiple courses of instruction I'd to that time taken covering this in specific along with relevant reading and study.
It is quite important to know what you're doing to this end for purposes of legality never mind very real potential for life or death results, which can and sometimes does result in well meaning but otherwise unlawful acting citizens finding themselves sleeping in a cell at Shawshank or Oz.
Three easy citizen CCW rules to know and memorize to avoid hard times
The following is taken directly from a posting I made at a different gunfu site where I'm a moderator dating back to 2006 in which I was reporting a real world incident I'd had hours prior where there was a decision process involved to which I was faced with assessing hyena under conditions which most people would have deemed to be worrisome and some people, some of us, might have made an erroneous and overly quick judgment. That judgment might could have resulted in someone going to jail, the hospital, or the morgue.
In my case none of the above as I went home and reported what had happened for others to learn from.
I won't carry over the story of what had happened to me in specific, as ultimately it's not important. What is though is the following information that was part of my story in which I explain exactly what outline I had going through my mind to assist toward judgment and my on the fly decision making.
I'm thinking, hoping, this specific information will prove useful for folks here as there have been lately many posts about act/don't act conditions and todays poll thread where folks talked about under what conditions would they act.
Yes this is a bit lengthy to read but hey, we're not just talking ABCs here.
This is your life and possibly even mine, literally...
The elements of the acronym J.A.M. may also be recognized by law enforcement under the acronym of 'A.O.J.' (Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy) as well as 'A.O.I.' (Ability, Opportunity, Intent) and by students of Ayoob as 'A.O.J.P.' (Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Preclusion).J.A.M. (Justification, Abilty, Means)
Legality and defensibility though varying somewhat state to state for self-defense (justifiable homicide) as well as toward concealed carry weapon use the bottom line always comes down to the very simple acronym of J.A.M.
The above term of J.A.M comes straight from both the VA (NRA) and MA (S&W) CCL classes I've taken through the years, as well as Massad Ayoob and most other CCL instruction & reference guides/books I've studied. The definitions I transcribed directly from the class guide book toward the S&W taught MA CCL class in specific. I took copious notes in class and each page of that class guide book is covered in my hand written notes and course discussed advisories. The sub explanations per item are my own words to further define and explain what each element of 'J.A.M.' means in plain easily understood English.
If you do not have the trifecta of 'J.A.M.' and just one or two of it's legs then you'll discover in real life that you very likely may be considered a criminal too.
Recent incidents such as the ice cream store shooting in VA and the TX guy who shotgunned two alledged burglars at his neighbors unoccupied home are examples of why it's important to know, understand, and memorize J.A.M. (aka A.O.J.). Not knowing as much can cost you directly alot of time, money, and even your freedom as you otherwise bet on having an easy prosecutor/DA or sympathetic and understanding jury of your peers.
Originally Posted by Mass. Carry Permit Program Certificate Number LTC-005, Page 4 Section 2B
* Jeopardy - Serious bodily injury/death
(e.g. Can he/she/it kill me right now this moment...not in 60 or 30 seconds but right now and _imminent_ death is staring me in the face)
* Ability - To cause that degree of harm
(e.g. Does he/she/it have the _actual_ ability to kill me...not might or could have with a lucky lob shot via a pistol from 2 city blocks/a football field away. We're talking running up on you at OH MY GOD HIS BREATH STINKS!!!! range)
* Means - Weapon of some description and/or physical force
(e.g. Does he/she/it have a weapon of real, serious and immediate ability to kill me...not OMG these kids were squirting my wife & I with Super Soakers so I had to smoke'm. Now if the Super Soakers were filled with gasoline then you might have an argument but it would still be tenuous as you could just run away but if they also had a lit road flare in hand and you think they were motivated to immolate you & yours now soaked in gasoline alive...well then that would be considered as them having 'means'.)
Additional reading on this subject can be found at:
* 'Shoot/Don't Shoot Study Guide 2003' - http://www.learning-for-life.org/exp...hootordont.pdf
If the guy in TX from a week ago [Joe Horn] who had shotgunned down those two persons allegedly burglarizing his neighbors home had known and memorized J.A.M. then he'd likely not have found himself jammed up as he is today.
Be safe out there...
P.S. - The original posting along with largely positive feedback and additional commentary can be found at; http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ard-times.html
Last edited by Janq; 05-07-2008 at 10:06 AM.
How does this apply to protection of property ? Do you still need the same precursors ?
Good question Matt.Originally Posted by mattxander12
First check your own state _and_ local laws to be sure protection of property with lethal force is even lawful.
Most states do not allow as much and those that do they largely and generally have very narrow restrictions toward what, how, and when, and to what degree. A notable exception though are the laws of TX, which are not relevant to most US citizens unless you live there or travel through TX with any regularity.
But to answer your question no this does not apply directly toward protection of property for the sake of property defense itself. Property being by definition some 'thing' that is _not_ either your domicile/residence/home where you actually live or are sleeping. Other types of property fall under the above caveat of checking your own specific state and local laws. So if you are in defense of property (your home) and find yourself under siege then that attack is in many states of which have Castle Doctrine in play considered to be an act against your person. But even then the laws at the state level per state do differ.
The more you know...
Consider J.A.M. to be specific toward defense of self, you as in your existence inclusive of your physical body which is the container of your 'Self', to which you should do the math toward on the fly toward analysis of justifiable and lawful application of lethal force.
Also know that justifying use of lethal force is not the same as justifiable homicide. Ones goal and allowance by all state laws is to stop an attacker, not to with express intent to 'kill' them. There is a fine line here. Cross it wrongly and you could find yourself at a loss of freedom and/or all your monies toward mounting a criminal and civil court defense.
Read every one of the links I provided and study them.
Then again go back to your own state laws and study those too toward as much. Then lastly stay on top of your own state and local news toward same to see how juries, judges, prosecutors, and the media (!) handle persons who find themselves in same and similar situations.
It's better to learn and find out know than to be ignorant and find out the hard and very expensive way whilst seated in lockup waiting on your attorney to return calls to your momz or wife.
I've added to the OP another subject matter reference toward JAM/AOJ as sourced from the following;
Title: Improving Deadly Force Decision Making
Journal: FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin Volume:67 Issue:2 Dated:February 1998 Pages:1 to 9
Author(s): D T Olson
Publication Date: 1998
Origin: United States
Annotation: Police agencies can help officers make better decisions in their use of deadly force by using three strategies: improving deadly force policies, training officers in survival physiology, and using dynamic training.
Abstract: Before embarking on any effort to improve decisionmaking, an agency must have an effective and practical deadly force policy; officers must understand the parameters of their authority. Since the 1985 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Tennessee v. Garner, most law enforcement agencies have adopted restrictive policies that rely on "defense of life" as the rationale for using deadly force; however, ambiguities often exist when officers attempt to apply policy in dynamic street situations. The deadly force triangle is a decision model designed to enhance an officer's ability to respond to a deadly force encounter while remaining within legal and policy parameters. The three sides of an equilateral triangle represent three factors: ability, opportunity, and jeopardy. All three factors must be present to justify deadly force. Further, trainers must understand survival physiology and survival stress management techniques to help officers improve their decisionmaking skills in deadly force situations. Practice through realistic simulation offers one of the best ways to prepare officers to handle deadly force decisions. This training strategy integrates classroom instruction on policies and decisionmaking models with open motor skill training to enable officers to apply their knowledge in dynamic, stressful situations that approximate real life. Participants' performances during dynamic training sessions should be evaluated and documented. 29 notes
Not to make light of this subject....
But when reading these things.... I can't help but to think of Will Smith in MIB when he and the other applicants were doing the shooting test... and Will Smith puts a bullet in the little girl's head holding the physics book
At forums other than Gunatics I have noticed that _very_ often people oost what if scenarios and/or discuss real world reported events and have simply no clue as to how to act or react as within the _LAW_ and/or what is a a measured and sensible response as related to citizen carry and use of any force be it lethal or otherwise.
Interestingly though Gunatics stands out to my mind as not having the same type/caliber of readers, as in relation to citizen carry.
Regardless I thought to come back to this thread and stick it so that not only is it not lost but can be easily and quickly referenced for CTRLV effects by our members to other forums as the opportunity presents itself.
I've found myself doing this very often like weekly over at DefensiveCarry.com in specific.
So glad I don't live in one of these tight wad states.
IS this where everyone's been hiding the last couple of years?
you normally also have to consider the implied (or expressed) INTENT of the attacker, and you must be on "innocent ground". You have to LEGALLY be where you are and doing what you are doing. And as Zimmerman found out, realistically, you have a duty to do more than just these things. you need to AVOID TROUBLE if you can, or you will likely find yourself in big trouble, legally.